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Stuart H

The Politics Thread

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Re: The Politics Thread

And for every £100 paid in bank bonuses' date=' roughly 57pc will go straight to the tax-man in income tax and national insurance contributions. The financial sector is an enormous asset for this country which generates over £50 billion to HM Revenue and Customs. And you want to scare this away ?

Take away bonuses, and banks have one of two choices: pay staff less, and watch them walk to non-UK competitors who are willing to pay market rates, or raise base salaries.

Come on Jon go beyond all this naive Liberal nonsense and anti-British Socialist lies and think it through mate..

But I must agree about the EU, in as much as pulling away from the meddling federal vision of the liberal left, and back to a purely trading / defence partnership between European states.

[/color']

Im not saying scare away. The banks need to shape up for a start. I read somewhere that banks such as Natwest (which the tax payer owns) got fined a few million purely on poor customer service. This should'nt be allowed to happen. The bankers should also move their bonuses into shares to invest back into the banks. They will make money but the banks wouldnt lose too much.

Im so frustrated (being a former conservative follower) that Cameron has done so little to curb the banik bonuses. Dave, they now run into billions of pounds. No bonuses should be paid until the banks have paid back the money in which we bailed them out. I may sound Liberal but as a democratic country this should not happen.

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Re: The Politics Thread

But I must agree about the EU' date=' in as much as pulling away from the meddling federal vision of the liberal left, and back to a purely trading / defence partnership between European states.

[/color']

Britain would be fine if we left the EU right now. NO country would stop trading with us as we hold a huge part of the market. To stop trading with us would damage them more. It also costs bloomin billions to be in the EU. Look at the likes of Switzerland and Norway. Why cant we copy them!

I would also like Britain restored to her old powerful self. Not reliant on the US to bail us out. We should be regarded as a force again! :D

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Re: The Politics Thread

My veiws on politics are simple.

Torries are idiots complete clowns and just make rich people richer caint stand em and its lucky cameron doesnt come round my end beacause id rip his throat out.

Lib dems- tratiors

BNP- Just plain weird

Labour- Place to be even if gordan brown dint no what country he was running

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Re: The Politics Thread

You not what annoys me most in politics, in regards to politicians and the voter.

Complaining about certain policies or situations, slating the governments actions yet offering no solutions or suggestions, let alone realistic ones in regards to the issue they are complaining about.

tax this, tax that, cuts here, cuts there.

Get real people if it wasnt for the inability of the last idiotic labour government to control our fine countries spending this government wouldnt be faced having to make the biggest cuts in history. Whether you like to tories or not, this is not there fault and they are right, we have to pay back the money we owe so creditors will continue to lend to us in the long term, this happy go lucking lets keep spending philosophy from Labour is ridiculous.

At some point we have to pay back the billions we owe. Quite frankly i wouldnt want any other government in charge right now. Iv definitely been won over by the conservatives in this coalition government. I was on the fence, caught in the Lib Dem hype, but im now most definately going to vote torie, and for a long time to come. Whilst they have actually tried to address pressing issues in this country and make some hard choices labour having been embroiled in a popularity contest with the eventual winner promising new things, new direction yet failing to put any bloody policies on to paper ! talk about out of his depth !

Rise in tuition fees dont bother me, and no not because im in my final year, as i will eventually need to do a masters so at some point if i was to due it in england id be hit with the price rise, but this rise will once again make Degree's valuable and will decrease the amount of pointless low brow universities and people who go to uni just for the crack ( cant blame them its ace :D ) and hopefully a reduction in utterly pointless degrees. Not to mention you can still get a loan, it just takes longer to pay back !

plus if your that against it, study abroad, i fully intend to do my Msc in Oz !

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Re: The Politics Thread

Quite right Adam and to be honest ( many won't admit it) I think you reflect the general mood of the country. Labour were awful in power, they presided over a catastrophic period in British history. Milepede is vile and an RMT stooge, they still offer nothing and rely on the trade unions, the work shy poor and the irresponsible brainwashed swivel eyed minority who only vote for them through some deluded sense of class or local loyalty . Likewise for the Dems, total con artists , never was and never will be fit to govern in my opinion, they simply don't possess the nads. You stick with the blue team son, you'll be alright ;)

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Re: The Politics Thread

I'm also coming round to the blue way of thinking... and I'm northern :eek: They actually seem like they know what they're doing and whilst I don't necessarily agree with all their policies, they seem to be carrying them out with conviction. Labour were useless IMO. Sure everyone was happy, money was free-flowing but then they realised we had to pay it back and I think the Tories have done more in their 6 months than Labour did whilst they still had the reins in the recession period. I'm also irritated with the Libs at their lack of spine... They may not have had a choice and I kinda feel sorry for them but I think the '10 election was the closest they're going to get and I reckon they'll have lost a lot of support since the university fees decision. I just hope that support doesn't go over to Griffin's dark side :o

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Re: The Politics Thread

In fairness to the Lib Dems, what choice did they have ?

They either side with the Tories who won the most seats and allow them to form a majority government or dont side with either and have a minority government in a time where action needs to be taken. Clegg did it for the good of the country but he will forever get battered for it.

I think its all conservative round me, suprisingly as im slap bang in the middle of England. But traditionally i believe my surrounding counties of Staffs and Shropshire have always been tory, not sure about wolves way.

Dave, i cant see me voting anyone else for a long long time to come.

Also Stu, thing is, when has there ever been a government when someone agree's with all their policies, i may not like some of them, but what alternatives are there :confused::o

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Re: The Politics Thread

In fairness to the Lib Dems' date=' what choice did they have ?

They either side with the Tories who won the most seats and allow them to form a majority government or dont side with either and have a minority government in a time where action needs to be taken. Clegg did it for the good of the country but he will forever get battered for it.

I think its all conservative round me, suprisingly as im slap bang in the middle. But traditionally i believe my surrounding counties of Staffs and Shropshire have always been tory, not sure about wolves way.

Dave, i cant see me voting anyone else for a long long time to come.

Also Stu, thing is, when has there ever been a government when someone agree's with all their policies, i may not like some of them, [b']but what alternatives are there[/b] :confused::o

Independance for up here in Scotland :P

The problem I have with the Tories is they seem to be hitting the wrong people, the VAT increase hits the people on fixed incomes the most ie pensioners, people can bang on about the work-shy all they like, but I can't even get a job in a shop atm because they are employing 16/17/18 year olds who would be on a lower mim wage, and as some of you know I work a small part-time job which is topped up by the dole money, but because of the system in place which has been revamped by the Tories its a monthly battle for me to get the correct money which I need to just pay bills and eat. With now because of the cuts an estimated 2000 people in Aberdeen are going to get made redundant in the next 3 to 9 months just from the public sector alone.

The frustrating thing is all they had to do was not build the 2 aircraft carriers and only replace 50% of trident and job done, country back in the black and no cuts

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Re: The Politics Thread

In fairness to the Lib Dems' date=' what choice did they have ?

They either side with the Tories who won the most seats and allow them to form a majority government or dont side with either and have a minority government in a time where action needs to be taken. Clegg did it for the good of the country but he will forever get battered for it.

I think its all conservative round me, suprisingly as im slap bang in the middle of England. But traditionally i believe my surrounding counties of Staffs and Shropshire have always been tory, not sure about wolves way.

Dave, i cant see me voting anyone else for a long long time to come.

Also Stu, thing is, when has there ever been a government when someone agree's with all their policies, i may not like some of them, but what alternatives are there :confused::o[/quote']

Of course they don't have a choice and that's why I have sympathy for them. However, going into the election it was clear that the Libs would have the deciding vote so to speak. Despite this they went in completely committed to their policies which later they knew they'd have to revoke... That said, not sure I can see another way round it for them :o

My constituency's Tory too. As location says, I'm in the posh bit near Manchester :) Some people near me have pools :eek:

As to your last bit, were you involved on the election thread that was up? Izod believed everything Tory and Belkevitz loved all things Labour. I think I'm far too... liberal... to see it that way and I'm not going to come out and say I'm Tory for life as the time may well come when I don't believe they're the best party for the country.

Thats the spirit now Come on boys' date=' it will only cost you a fiver...you get a nice poster[/b']

ThatcherRexNilsJorgensen460.jpg

:) :) :)

That's not the poster is it? ;)

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Re: The Politics Thread

Independance for up here in Scotland :P

The problem I have with the Tories is they seem to be hitting the wrong people' date=' the VAT increase hits the people on fixed incomes the most ie pensioners, people can bang on about the work-shy all they like, but I can't even get a job in a shop atm because they are employing 16/17/18 year olds who would be on a lower mim wage, and as some of you know I work a small part-time job which is topped up by the dole money, but because of the system in place which has been revamped by the Tories its a monthly battle for me to get the correct money which I need to just pay bills and eat. With now because of the cuts an estimated 2000 people in Aberdeen are going to get made redundant in the next 3 to 9 months just from the public sector alone.

[b']The frustrating thing is all they had to do was not build the 2 aircraft carriers and only replace 50% of trident and job done, country back in the black and no cuts[/b]

Meh give the scots their freedom i say :D

In regards to the bolded, its probably the most controversial policy from the Conservatives for me. That being said, they are maintaining the long term security of our country.

Its not as easy to say if they replaced 50% everything would be hunky dorey, i get your point, there would be millions more to spend but with or without trident this country is in a financial mess.

I cant really comment on the systems they have put in place in regards to jobs etc as im a tax dodging student :o ( will eventually pay my dues, i promise ) but i dont think the VAT increase is a bad idea, nor do i think it will effect the most vunerable. If anything the rise in VAT would effect the middle and upper classes ( not in terms of there lifestyle but they would pay more money due to this rise ) because of the lifestyle choices they make, alot of food in shops, even chocolate chip cookies are VAT free, there are ways to get around the VAT increase by shopping wisely. Obviously if you want a new TV or whatever you will have to pay more, but lets remember it is a tax increase and it was put in place to bring more money in. I think we just have to ride this out mate :o

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Re: The Politics Thread

As to your last bit' date=' were you involved on the election thread that was up? Izod believed everything Tory and Belkevitz loved all things Labour. I think I'm far too... liberal... to see it that way and I'm not going to come out and say I'm Tory for life as the time may well come when I don't believe they're the best party for the country.

[/quote']

Yeah i was, and as i mentioned earlier i was picked up in the media hype of the Lib Dems :o but appreciate quite a few of the tories policies.

Im not saying im Tory for life, obviously my opinions will change and so will the parties themselves, but looking at the current state of things, i cant see me voting labour :o

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Re: The Politics Thread

Independance for up here in Scotland :P

Those greedy blighters haven't got the bottle ;)

The problem I have with the Tories is they seem to be hitting the wrong people, the VAT increase hits the people on fixed incomes the most ie pensioners, people can bang on about the work-shy all they like, but I can't even get a job in a shop atm because they are employing 16/17/18 year olds who would be on a lower mim wage, and as some of you know I work a small part-time job which is topped up by the dole money, but because of the system in place which has been revamped by the Tories its a monthly battle for me to get the correct money which I need to just pay bills and eat.

The welfare state became so bloated under Labour, millions have taken it as a career choice. Its now completely unsustainable, unfair and inefficient, it must change across the board. Then and only then perhaps it can reach the people ( such as yourself) who really need it.

With now because of the cuts an estimated 2000 people in Aberdeen are going to get made redundant in the next 3 to 9 months just from the public sector alone.

Private enterprise is the only sustainable way forward its what made this country great, you can make a million public sector jobs ( as they did) but who pays for them ? THE PUBLIC

The frustrating thing is all they had to do was not build the 2 aircraft carriers and only replace 50% of trident and job done, country back in the black and no cuts.

Hardly Simon as it cost more in the long run to pull out of the (Labour) contracts, as for Trident you jest...Iran / China / Pakistan

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Re: The Politics Thread

You not what annoys me most in politics' date=' in regards to politicians and the voter.

Complaining about certain policies or situations, slating the governments actions yet offering no solutions or suggestions, let alone realistic ones in regards to the issue they are complaining about.

tax this, tax that, cuts here, cuts there.

Get real people if it wasnt for the inability of the last idiotic labour government to control our fine countries spending this government wouldnt be faced having to make the biggest cuts in history. Whether you like to tories or not, this is not there fault and they are right, we have to pay back the money we owe so creditors will continue to lend to us in the long term, this happy go lucking lets keep spending philosophy from Labour is ridiculous.

At some point we have to pay back the billions we owe. Quite frankly i wouldnt want any other government in charge right now. Iv definitely been won over by the conservatives in this coalition government. I was on the fence, caught in the Lib Dem hype, but im now most definately going to vote torie, and for a long time to come. Whilst they have actually tried to address pressing issues in this country and make some hard choices labour having been embroiled in a popularity contest with the eventual winner promising new things, new direction yet failing to put any bloody policies on to paper ! talk about out of his depth ![/quote']

Adam, it's alright you saying all that, but whatever party came into power, whether they were Tory, Labour, Lib Dem or the bloomin' Monster Ravin' Loony Party (or whatever they're called), massive cuts would have been made. If Labour had retained power, they'd have made the same amount of cuts as well, albeit not necessarily in the same areas. So praising the Tories for making cuts isn't wholly applaudable when it was a fundamental strategy for each party.

And as Simon rightfully says, there are many places where the cuts should have been made and haven't.

The frustrating thing is all they had to do was not build the 2 aircraft carriers and only replace 50% of trident and job done' date=' country back in the black and no cuts[/quote']

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Re: The Politics Thread

I hardly applauding them, im just saying....... Labour opposed the majority of Torie cuts and proposed more public sector spending :confused:

The fact that Labour contributed greatly towards the mess were in is perhaps the root cause of my distaste towards them.

I dont know enough about politics or the cuts themselves to make a valid point, but my opinion is, the Tories are doing whats best for the country. Some people will lose out, but they were always going to. The spending of the previous government has massively contributed to the mess where in today.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Adam' date=' it's alright you saying all that, but whatever party came into power, whether they were Tory, Labour, Lib Dem or the bloomin' Monster Ravin' Loony Party (or whatever they're called), massive cuts would have been made. If Labour had retained power, they'd have made the same amount of cuts as well, albeit not necessarily in the same areas. So praising the Tories for making cuts isn't wholly applaudable when it was a fundamental strategy for each party.

And as Simon rightfully says, there are many places where the cuts should have been made and haven't.[/quote']

Where's the evidence that Labour (the only other party that had half a chance of getting into power) would also have made cuts? The recession started in December 2007: that's two and a half years for Labour to do something about it but we went into summer 2010 with the country still suffering from the recession's effects. Same bloke in charge of the party too...

I do agree on the Trident issue though. Replacing a trillion (?) pound system that doesn't need replacing for another 20 years when the country's in this state seems a little daft to say the least.

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Re: The Politics Thread

I hardly applauding them' date=' im just saying....... Labour opposed the majority of Torie cuts and proposed more public sector spending :confused:

The fact that Labour contributed greatly towards the mess were in is perhaps the root cause of my distaste towards them.

I dont know enough about politics or the cuts themselves to make a valid point, but my opinion is, the Tories are doing whats best for the country. Some people will lose out, but they were always going to. The spending of the previous government has massively contributed to the mess where in today.[/quote']

It's kind of what the opposition is meant to do though, to object. If Labour were making the same cuts, the Tories would be objecting to them - that's just the way it works.

I can appreciate Labour's failings in the last Government, although it's the banks that should take a hefty portion of blame (as well as, it must be said, the Labour Government [in this particular instance] for not being strict enough with them). The most ironic thing right now is how Osbourne was so adamant that he'd stop these big banks paying these ridiculous bonuses just a few months ago. He's since shut his trap now in power and the bonuses are about to be paid. Farcical.

Where's the evidence that Labour (the only other party that had half a chance of getting into power) would also have made cuts? The recession started in December 2007: that's two and a half years for Labour to do something about it but we went into summer 2010 with the country still suffering from the recession's effects. Same bloke in charge of the party too...

I do agree on the Trident issue though. Replacing a trillion (?) pound system that doesn't need replacing for another 20 years when the country's in this state seems a little daft to say the least.

It would have happened Stuart. Labour can't make shed-loads of cuts right before an election. They had to give themselves a chance of being re-elected.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Quite right the NHS...Department for International Development...and sell off the Bloody BBC while you are at it B)

and this is the point me and you always hit a brick wall :P

You love capitalism and the privatisation of everything

and I believe that system is only there to serve 5% of the population and to keep everyone else "in there place"

Funny you mentioned earlier China as a military threat earlier - I'd say they are not a threat in a military way - far from it in fact, but they are a threat under the system you so love, it used to be Isreal that used to have all the banking/financial clout here and in the States, but in the last 5 years its China thats colonising everyones financal systems, and in Brazil and Africa, China are actually colonising the countries through industry, a bit like we did in the 1800's

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Re: The Politics Thread

I do agree on the Trident issue though. Replacing a trillion (?) pound system that doesn't need replacing for another 20 years when the country's in this state seems a little daft to say the least.

As ever its not quite as simple as the BBC and the lefty's amongst us would have you believe' date=' from memory the subs are slowly becoming un-serviceable and need to be redesigned / built that takes 20 years. The total cost of the project is nearer to 40 billion and protects countless jobs in the British Nuclear industry oh and of course other countries are a lot less likely to start a nuclear war with us. Same old Labour misinformation and rabble raising I'm afraid :rolleyes: [/color']

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Re: The Politics Thread

It's kind of what the opposition is meant to do though' date=' to object. If Labour were making the same cuts, the Tories would be objecting to them - that's just the way it works.

I can appreciate Labour's failings in the last Government, although it's the banks that should take a hefty portion of blame (as well as, it must be said, the Labour Government [in this particular instance'] for not being strict enough with them). The most ironic thing right now is how Osbourne was so adamant that he'd stop these big banks paying these ridiculous bonuses just a few months ago. He's since shut his trap now in power and the bonuses are about to be paid. Farcical.

No bonuses... Bankers move abroad where they can get bonuses... Lack of people to take experienced bankers' jobs... Bring in educated people from far overseas (India/China) to take the jobs... Get slated for increasing immigration and giving jobs to immigrants when so many people in the country are unemployed (despite being skilled in completely different areas).

There's always a comeback :o IMO bonuses should be capped at a competitive amount which I guess is well below what they're getting now.

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Re: The Politics Thread

It would have happened Stuart. Labour can't make shed-loads of cuts right before an election. They had to give themselves a chance of being re-elected.

So in other words Andy' date=' it was ok for them to lead the country further down the toilet so they could get into power again?...hardly inspires confidence and is exactly the point Stuart / Adam were making. The Conservatives [u']will put the country first [/u]whatever risk that poses to themselves or the fragile coalition.

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Re: The Politics Thread

As ever its not quite as simple as the BBC and the lefty's amongst us would have you believe' date=' from memory the subs are slowly becoming un-serviceable and need to be redesigned / built that takes 20 years. The total cost of the project is nearer to 40 billion and protects countless jobs in the British Nuclear industry oh and of course other countries are a lot less likely to start a nuclear war with us. Same old Labour misinformation and rabble raising I'm afraid :rolleyes: [/color']

We don't need the subs or the bombs

We do need to toughen up thou on real threats - Ie money spent on wet squads to get rid of real potential leader threats ect and we need to get out of Afganistan, its turning into another Vitenam war ie unwinable

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