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The Politics Thread

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Re: The Politics Thread

I'm sorry but if South Korea was to be attacked' date=' USA would be unable to protect them either. As far as I know [b']North Korea has the most advanced army in the world [/b]and the country is impenetrable. Thats why the military budget is so high for all the major countries. By far North Korea has the best army, China as far as I know has the biggest army (But as Russia taught us in WW2 that doesn't make them any good).

http://www.globalfirepower.com/index.asp

N.Korea is ranked just under Mighty world Superpower POLAND!!!!

It's more an issue of retaliation rather than invasion.

Not sure about the Russian lesson in WW2...

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Re: The Politics Thread

So now we want homogenity in terms of BMI? :P

Next you will want us to have the same height' date=' look, smell, religion, culture, hair, blood type....:P

Prohibition! This is currently happening accross the American/Canadian border where cheaper beverages are shipped accross each way.

On the assumption that this is serious:

It won't hard drugs are illegal ; in most of the right thinking world. have that solved the problem of drugs? 200% charges on food stuff will drive up inflation-meaning the money you saved would actually be real money lost.

Next time you try to buy hot pasties and you need to empty a trunkload of cash to get it....its the Rooster economic model :) Welcome to Somali land![/quote']

That's the beauty of the system, you'll never have enough money to buy too much food. And you probably need it all to buy food so the smoke/drugs problem is also solved :D :D :D

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Re: The Politics Thread

http://www.globalfirepower.com/index.asp

N.Korea is ranked just under Mighty world Superpower POLAND!!!!

It's more an issue of retaliation rather than invasion.

Not sure about the Russian lesson in WW2...

Fair point, but sure the Korean War and Vietnam wars (as well as Afghnistan) have shown that a "liberation" army will struggle regardless of numbers or firepower.

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Re: The Politics Thread

I'm sorry but if South Korea was to be attacked' date=' USA would be unable to protect them either. As far as I know North Korea has the most advanced army in the world and the country is impenetrable. Thats why the military budget is so high for all the major countries. By far North Korea has the best army, China as far as I know has the biggest army (But as Russia taught us in WW2 that doesn't make them any good).[/quote']

China wont do it cause economical reasons,it isnt justified,theirs weapons arent so advanced as USA,or China,but they could fight guerilla war anyway.........there isnt such thing as impenetrable,every fortress could be conquered,only question is it worth it..........

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Re: The Politics Thread

That's the beauty of the system' date=' you'll never have enough money to buy too much food. And you probably need it all to buy food so the smoke/drugs problem is also solved :D :D :D[/quote']

and controls the population all in one go!!!

that Sir is brilliant-will save the repp for that ratings thread though :P

The formula used to calculate BMI is fundamentally flawed

Yeah it is-but it's just a fun discussion (unless someone brings up race' date=' religion, war, alcohol, cigs ...)

Fair point, but sure the Korean War and Vietnam wars (as well as Afghnistan) have shown that a "liberation" army will struggle regardless of numbers or firepower.

Was the korean war a liberation war or one side was supported by the America and another by the East? I think that the Vietnam war was the nationalist (Soviet backed communist) trying to unify the country under communism and South Vietnam (and their American backers) were having none of it.

There were succeful wars of liberation the haitian liberation, Cambodia, bangladesh, Sino Japanese wars etc-but modern warfare is more of a search and destroy affair rather than slower build support and unleash hell sort of thing.

China wont do it cause economical reasons' date='it isnt justified,theirs weapons arent so advanced as USA,or China,but they could fight guerilla war anyway.........there isnt such thing as impenetrable,every fortress could be conquered,only question is it worth it..........[/quote']

North Korea fight Guerrilla warfare?! They don't have a culture/history of it-there forces are regimented in nature with small pockets of specialised forces-besides you can't fight that type of warfare when peasants are starving -fear only works so far.

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Re: The Politics Thread

http://www.globalfirepower.com/index.asp

N.Korea is ranked just under Mighty world Superpower POLAND!!!!

It's more an issue of retaliation rather than invasion.

Not sure about the Russian lesson in WW2...

Really what a waste of a year in Economics.

The Russians had the biggest army in WW2, but were crushed by the Germans on so many occasions.

Edit; Then again USA got there butts handed to them by Vietnam who don't rank on there.

If North Korea were that bad I don't think they would be so feared, (Plus don't they have WMD's) There maybe more than the eye can see

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Re: The Politics Thread

Really what a waste of a year in Economics.

The Russians had the biggest army in WW2' date=' but were crushed by the Germans on so many occasions.

Edit; Are the Germans still under treaty?[/quote']

lol..

I think that was operation Barbarossa where the german attacked Moscow, leningrad and Stalingrad..won and the Russians fell back destroying factories etc thus starving the German army. Horrific-20 mill Russians died mostly civilians :(

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Re: The Politics Thread

lol..

I think that was operation Barbarossa where the german attacked Moscow' date=' leningrad and Stalingrad..won and the Russians fell back destroying factories etc thus starving the German army. Horrific-20 mill Russians died mostly civilians :([/quote']

I'm sure they stopped the Germans in the end but the loss rate they had was unreal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

Casualty table shows that the Soviet Union (Russia) had over 23 Million deaths, the worst in WW2.

China behind them with 10 Million

So yeah the Russians weren't very good during WW2

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Re: The Politics Thread

I'm sure they stopped the Germans in the end but the loss rate they had was unreal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

Casualty table shows that the Soviet Union (Russia) had over 23 Million deaths' date=' the worst in WW2.

China behind them with 10 Million

So yeah the Russians weren't very good during WW2[/quote']

Have you ever heard of Stalin's 'Great Purge' of 1937? He had 30,000 officers executed, most of the top ranked ones as well. Leaving the army with little experience for the battlefied, and morale gone down the drain. And also, the 'Winter War' of 1939 to which Russian morale took an even bigger hit when it lost 127 thousand dead and 189 thousand wounded to Finland whose losses were about 1/5th of that.

And also for some reason Stalin believed that Hitler would not renege on their non-aggression pact and even after the German's advanced far after a few days he still didn't believe it. But the Russians were more than willing to take the big losses to ultimately ensnare the Germans who were gone too far past their lines of suppllies. Hitler really did lose that war for the Germans.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Have you ever heard of Stalin's 'Great Purge' of 1937? He had 30' date='000 officers executed, most of the top ranked ones as well. Leaving the army with little experience for the battlefied, and morale gone down the drain. And also, the 'Winter War' of 1939 to which Russian morale took an even bigger hit when it lost 127 thousand dead and 189 thousand wounded to Finland whose losses were about 1/5th of that.

And also for some reason Stalin believed that Hitler would not renege on their non-aggression pact and even after the German's advanced far after a few days he still didn't believe it. But the Russians were more than willing to take the big losses to ultimately ensnare the Germans who were gone too far past their lines of suppllies. Hitler really did lose that war for the Germans.[/quote']

I didn't study Stalin in great detail, more of the Tsar's we covered. I did hear of the great purge a 'night of the long knives' (The German one that is) on a larger scale. Yeah the Night of The Long Knives wouldn't have helped but that's how paranoid Hitler got.

Hitler's always a weird subject as well, while he may have lost the war he completely rebuilt Germany after WW1, the Treaty of Versailles (I think) pretty much killed Germany as a powerhouse and made them take the blame for starting the war even though it was Austria-Hungary who started and Germany had to back them up because of a treaty between the two. As I was saying Hitler saved Germany from a complete economic collapse and made them an industry powerhouse, and while he was one the most evil characters in history he was actually a very very good politician.

Yeah Russia were so badly developed because of the Tsars again Stalin saved them from an economic collapse. But they were still awful during both wars for there size they should have been the most dangerous.

An interesting article I read;

EDIT; That'll post when my internet stops crashing

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Re: The Politics Thread

http://www.cracked.com/article_19550_the-5-most-mind-blowing-acts-battlefield-mercy-in-history_p2.html

British soldier Henry Tandey, who was just a private, found himself and his regiment under heavy machine gun fire from German forces. Tandey, not being one to let such little things as being heavily fired upon bog him down, made his way forward and secured the machine gun nest for the Brits.

Pushing on, they came upon a bridge that had been somewhat disassembled, making vehicle traffic over it impossible. On the other side was, of course, more enemy soldiers with machine guns. The only way out was with major reinforcements or a miracle. Or failing either of those, an incredibly brave soldier with a death wish. Tandey crawled up to the bridge, and with Germans firing upon him, he managed to replace the missing planks to allow passage. Despite being hit a couple of times himself, he continued to advance into the town.

With the battle winding down, he stopped long enough to notice a wounded German soldier suddenly emerging from some bushes. Tandey raised his rifle to drop the guy like a bad habit. Being injured in the presence of one's enemy usually meant death or imprisonment, and the German seemed to know it.

However, by then Tandey decided he'd shot enough people, so he lowered his weapon and motioned the wounded and mustachioed German to get out of there. The soldier nodded his thanks and took off. Of course, that soldier was a young Adolf Hitler.

A random act of mercy ended up leading indirectly to the next world war and the Holocaust. Not only did Tandey let the man who would become one of humanity's worst monsters go, but also he kind of enabled him. See, some men would have taken that act of mercy to heart and paid it forward to others in need of mercy themselves.

:eek:

Yeah you read it right, a British Soldier had the chance to kill Hitler in WW1 but instead took mercy upon him :eek:

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Re: The Politics Thread

http://www.cracked.com/article_19550_the-5-most-mind-blowing-acts-battlefield-mercy-in-history_p2.html

:eek:

Yeah you read it right' date=' a British Soldier had the chance to kill Hitler in WW1 but instead took mercy upon him :eek:[/quote']

He was allowed to go. So how do we know he was Hitler? Still, it is a cracking story. I also liked the one above about the U-boats. :)

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Re: The Politics Thread

He was allowed to go. So how do we know he was Hitler? Still' date=' it is a cracking story. I also liked the one above about the U-boats. :)[/quote']

Hitler mentions the story in 'Mein Kampf', the last paragraph on the article. Talks about how he believes he was spared so he could do what he did.

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Re: The Politics Thread

So yeah the Russians weren't very good during WW2

Not necessarily-they were faced with a superior fighting force and in the end justified the means since they like China of old adopted the canon fodder approach to war.

So it's really about battle ideology.

But the Russians were more than willing to take the big losses to ultimately ensnare the Germans who were gone too far past their lines of suppllies. Hitler really did lose that war for the Germans.

True-a lot of the losses were caused while drawing the Germans deep into the eastern front so that Partisans' date=' weather, lack of supplies would leave them with only one direction to go-back home while the other allies laid siege on the other fronts.

What a nutter.. not you Kev :)

Cmon man-there have been others who have been preordained.....

And would the death of Hitler stopped a World War...

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Re: The Politics Thread

Cmon man-there have been others who have been preordained.....

And would the death of Hitler stopped a World War...

That point is one of histories most interesting debates. And worthy of a good book I feel. I am off now to start researching any books on the topic. :P For every book we can find there are a dozen's more that have failed to make my local library.

An even better question. If the Versaille Treaty did not treat Germany as the primary (proper word escapes me but I shall say scapegoat) scapegoat for the absolute and so very much apparent horrors of the war, would there have been the need for someone to rise up and restore parity to a nation that needed it, and ultimately lead to a wanton revenge on the persecutors?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Cmon man-there have been others who have been preordained.....

And would the death of Hitler stopped a World War...

That point is one of histories most interesting debates. And worthy of a good book I feel. I am off now to start researching any books on the topic. :P For every book we can find there are a dozen's more that have failed to make my local library.

An even better question. If the Versaille Treaty did not treat Germany as the primary (proper word escapes me but I shall say scapegoat) scapegoat for the absolute and so very much apparent horrors of the war' date=' would there have been the need for someone to rise up and restore parity to a nation that needed it, and ultimately lead to a wanton revenge on the persecutors?[/quote']

If Germany had realised that Hitler was behind the fire of the Reichstag (A big turning point in him taking over) would he have ever made it?

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Re: The Politics Thread

[

QUOTE=Dermo;2008102]Cmon man-there have been others who have been preordained.....

And would the death of Hitler stopped a World War...

That point is one of histories most interesting debates. And worthy of a good book I feel. I am off now to start researching any books on the topic. :P For every book we can find there are a dozen's more that have failed to make my local library.

An even better question. If the Versaille Treaty did not treat Germany as the primary (proper word escapes me but I shall say scapegoat) scapegoat for the absolute and so very much apparent horrors of the war, would there have been the need for someone to rise up and restore parity to a nation that needed it, and ultimately lead to a wanton revenge on the persecutors?

maybe in truth the treaty was weak -as it consisted of fumbled attempts to weaken , pacify and conciliate Germany driven by bruised egos, regaining of hegemony and greed.

But there is always some injustice (real or perceived) taking place and once given fertile minds and a manufacturing base..

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Re: The Politics Thread

Maybe in truth the treaty was weak -as it consisted of fumbled attempts to weaken , pacify and conciliate Germany driven by bruised egos, regaining of hegemony and greed.

But there is always some injustice (real or perceived) taking place and once given fertile minds and a manufacturing base..

The treaty was driven by an immense public opinion on punishing all the nations that were involved. Austro-Hungary was split up, Serbia was enveloped into a larger nation state, and Germany as the biggest and most powerful nation in central Europe took the biggest blow. Outrage for the huge losses through all those campaigns came into the reckoning when the dust cleared. It is funny in a way as these same people were in full support of a war in 1913/1914. Serbia who had been fighting many campaigns prior to the war was the primary cause of the war. They got the backing of Russia, who were seen as a threat by the Central Alliance, and with that Great Britain and reluctantly France wre entreatied to Russia and so on. Treaties are bad. :D

Fertile minds and idle hands are the devil's doing. :D I'm not sure that if the war's end left no retribution for Germany, would have led to a rising of one, and not any others, to have taken control as the nation would not have been in such a state of rebuilding and financing after the Great War.

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Re: The Politics Thread

The treaty of Versailles certainly played a role in Hitler's rise to power and the French are imo mainly to blame for that as they pushed for the hard line. The US were mainly looking to implement Wilson's 14 points and thus try to create an open world with debate instead of war (wich probably would've failed nonetheless as it had a lot of errors even without the treaty being really bad for Germany).

But even if the treaty hadn't been all that much I still think there had been a lot of room left for a leader to take charge of the country, though probably in a different way. Thing is that Germany's democracy during the 1920's/30's was ridiculously weak and had pretty much failed from the start (they almost turned communist after the Russian Revolution had they not killed a few of those in Germany for example) and with Kampfgruppe's (which were basically violent football hooligans without the football, leaving just violence) being a very integrated part of a society including fighting groups for every political party its no wonder that things turned out dramatically.

The NSDAP was pretty much the only party which stood for a strong Germany on its own and not some political cooperation with other parties so Hitler getting to power isn't something that can be erased real easily even if things went the other way. But what's interesting to think about is what would've happened if the other parties hadn't had the thought that they could use Hitler to get their own plans through or if Reichsprasident Hindenburg hadn't given Hitler the power to do whatever he wanted. So many things to think/wonder about when it comes to Germany during the early/half 1900's! :o

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Re: The Politics Thread

The treaty of Versailles certainly played a role in Hitler's rise to power and the French are imo mainly to blame for that as they pushed for the hard line. The US were mainly looking to implement Wilson's 14 points and thus try to create an open world with debate instead of war (wich probably would've failed nonetheless as it had a lot of errors even without the treaty being really bad for Germany).

But even if the treaty hadn't been all that much I still think there had been a lot of room left for a leader to take charge of the country' date=' though probably in a different way. Thing is that Germany's democracy during the 1920's/30's was ridiculously weak and had pretty much failed from the start (they almost turned communist after the Russian Revolution had they not killed a few of those in Germany for example) and with Kampfgruppe's (which were basically violent football hooligans without the football, leaving just violence) being a very integrated part of a society including fighting groups for every political party its no wonder that things turned out dramatically.

The NSDAP was pretty much the only party which stood for a strong Germany on its own and not some political cooperation with other parties so Hitler getting to power isn't something that can be erased real easily even if things went the other way. But what's interesting to think about is what would've happened if the other parties hadn't had the thought that they could use Hitler to get their own plans through or if Reichsprasident Hindenburg hadn't given Hitler the power to do whatever he wanted. So many things to think/wonder about when it comes to Germany during the early/half 1900's! :o[/quote']

Hitler was way out in the cold until the wall street crash.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Hitler was way out in the cold until the wall street crash.

And that is the beauty of history, there usually isn't one single event that can be pointed out as crucial to the whole story.

Because what if no economic crisis had hit the US and Europe, but the Kampfgruppen would've started fighting amongst eachother? Would it not have led to a strong SA (the NSDAP's Kampfgruppe) which was one of the strongest anyways? ;)

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Re: The Politics Thread

The treaty of Versailles certainly played a role in Hitler's rise to power and the French are imo mainly to blame for that as they pushed for the hard line. The US were mainly looking to implement Wilson's 14 points and thus try to create an open world with debate instead of war (wich probably would've failed nonetheless as it had a lot of errors even without the treaty being really bad for Germany).

But even if the treaty hadn't been all that much I still think there had been a lot of room left for a leader to take charge of the country' date=' though probably in a different way. Thing is that Germany's democracy during the 1920's/30's was ridiculously weak and had pretty much failed from the start (they almost turned communist after the Russian Revolution had they not killed a few of those in Germany for example) and with Kampfgruppe's (which were basically violent football hooligans without the football, leaving just violence) being a very integrated part of a society including fighting groups for every political party its no wonder that things turned out dramatically.

The NSDAP was pretty much the only party which stood for a strong Germany on its own and not some political cooperation with other parties so Hitler getting to power isn't something that can be erased real easily even if things went the other way. But what's interesting to think about is what would've happened if the other parties hadn't had the thought that they could use Hitler to get their own plans through or if Reichsprasident Hindenburg hadn't given Hitler the power to do whatever he wanted. So many things to think/wonder about when it comes to Germany during the early/half 1900's! :o[/quote']

Aah yes. Germany went to and fro with communism right after the war. And the communists never came to power, they were only a small number of student types. The void left a former and failed artist to take control. Some historians would put the war as 1914 till 1945. Historians have put it as the downfall of the western world. Empires came to the end, and 2 major nations were born in the aftermath.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Aah yes. Germany went to and fro with communism right after the war. And the communists never came to power' date=' they were only a small number of student types. The void left a former and failed artist to take control. Some historians would put the war as 1914 till 1945. Historians have put it as the downfall of the western world. Empires came to the end, and 2 major nations were born in the aftermath.[/quote']

Think about what might've happened if WWII hadn't been there and the US and Russia still had grown strong, there had been a collection of rather strong European countries + the US + Russia. Could probably be even worse than what happened! :P

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