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The Politics Thread


Stuart H
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Re: The Politics Thread

2JAErHl7lZ4

I started ignoring religion at times, just let them talk but don't listen as at times it just absolutely does not make sense. I'm sure there's good values etc that the bible and other religious texts and books can teach you, but do you really need those to figure out that its not very nice to hurt or even kill someone? And what I read that some of you say that religion can't be blamed when someone uses it to do harm: You can't blame a gun for shooting anyone as a trigger has to be pulled, but a gun can't tell you that this or that person is doing something wrong, a religious text can so I do think that you can blame religion when people harm others in the name of religion. That's not misinterpretation if you ask me.

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Re: The Politics Thread

I started ignoring religion at times' date=' just let them talk but don't listen as at times it just absolutely does not make sense. I'm sure there's good values etc that the bible and other religious texts and books can teach you, but do you really need those to figure out that its not very nice to hurt or even kill someone? And what I read that some of you say that religion can't be blamed when someone uses it to do harm: You can't blame a gun for shooting anyone as a trigger has to be pulled, but a gun can't tell you that this or that person is doing something wrong, [b']a religious text can[/b] so I do think that you can blame religion when people harm others in the name of religion. That's not misinterpretation if you ask me.

So religion -mainstream ones anyway-brainwashes ppl so they don't have free will?

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Re: The Politics Thread

2JAErHl7lZ4

I started ignoring religion at times' date=' just let them talk but don't listen as at times it just absolutely does not make sense. I'm sure there's good values etc that the bible and other religious texts and books can teach you, but do you really need those to figure out that its not very nice to hurt or even kill someone? And what I read that some of you say that religion can't be blamed when someone uses it to do harm: You can't blame a gun for shooting anyone as a trigger has to be pulled, but a gun can't tell you that this or that person is doing something wrong, a religious text can so I do think that you can blame religion when people harm others in the name of religion. That's not misinterpretation if you ask me.[/quote']

LOL hilarious vid mate :D

I didnt realize Russell knew such fancy vocabulary.

HAHA Gandhi going to Hell.

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Re: The Politics Thread

So religion -mainstream ones anyway-brainwashes ppl so they don't have free will?

That is not what I said mate :rolleyes:

The ony thing I am trying to point out is that a text that is written by someone aimed at other people can be persuasive because they are words from one person to another' date=' a gun or any other type of weapon cannot persuade a person to do such a thing. Yes I do realize that every kind of text is written by someone, but in the case of religion many people take for granted what is written and do not care that much about who wrote it (especially when its about books like the bible, koran etc.) so imo you can also blame the text and the people who have given it such a status and not just the writer.

LOL hilarious vid mate :D

I didnt realize Russell knew such fancy vocabulary.

HAHA Gandhi going to Hell.

Haha yeah I came across this one day, he's pretty good :D

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Re: The Politics Thread

2JAErHl7lZ4

You can't blame a gun for shooting anyone as a trigger has to be pulled' date=' but a gun can't tell you that this or that person is doing something wrong, a religious text can so [i']I do think that you can blame religion when people harm others in the name of religion.[/i] That's not misinterpretation if you ask me.

That is not what I said mate :rolleyes:

The ony thing I am trying to point out is that a text that is written by someone aimed at other people can be persuasive because they are words from one person to another' date=' a gun or any other type of weapon cannot persuade a person to do such a thing. Yes I do realize that every kind of text is written by someone, but in the case of religion many people take for granted what is written and do not care that much about who wrote it (especially when its about books like the bible, koran etc.) so imo yo[b']u can also blame the text[/b] and the people who have given it such a status and not just the writer.

Thanks for the clarification..When looking for a scapegoat it's easy to find one. There are many things that lead ppl to particular behaviors -parenting, genetics (if you believe there is a gay gene), upbringing etc.

Thus as a contributory factor it may play a role just like the media etc.

If we were to burn all religious text (the Church tried that years ago) would we make a better human being?

As regards to the women bishops being nixed-most of the developing countries tend to be more stringent with respect to their approach to religion ideology. This tendency has been inculcated in their congregation and emissaries and thus an almost literal biblical translation leads to those sort of decisions.

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Re: The Politics Thread

There are two things about religion that make it damagging:

1) It makes claims of supreme knowledge of the truth. In claiming to know what is happening, a religion encourages terrible behavior and causes comflict with others outside it. If you KNOW that God wants you to do something, then it doesn't matter how evil other people think it is anymore. You're probably gonna do it anyway.

God's will has been an excuse for everything from the Crusades to the inquisition. Religion is also the last to budge when social and political norms progress, because it has a very hard time admitting it's fallible. Thats why we still don't have women bishops or gay marriage.

2) It encourages (in some cases) rigid power structures which are very unaccountable. It places vulnerable people such as children and other ordinary citizens into the hands of people who are both higher up in the hierachy and who claim to have God on their side. The natural result, as in the Catholic Church, is widespread abuse of power.

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Re: The Politics Thread

If we were to burn all religious text (the Church tried that years ago) would we make a better human being?

Nope absolutely not, but it would take away an incentive for people to do bad things in someone/something else's name(s) if you ask me.

Creating a better human being is not possible, I believe that you have certain characteristics from the day you're born and the way you grow up will decide which way your characteristics will grow. If you have it in you to be worse than others and your childhood was quite terrible then you're likely to be a bad person, if your childhood was good you'll probably won't be bad but there'll always be something in you that might just need a spark to make you go crazy and that's the same with people who are naturally good but grow up in a bad way, they might just need some sort of different treatment to bring up the good in them (yeah like those bad movie happy ending scripts ;)).

In the end no one knows how this works and no one will probably know (for the better imo, what good would it be if we know right from the start what kind of person someone is?), but I do think that there are ways to create a social world with the best conditions to have people need to bring up the bad side in them as less as possible, though even then you'll still have certain people with twisted minds.

Btw just for the record, I'm not talking to anyone in particular, just trying to get my ideas out to you hoping it'll help you form your opinion and in return write that down here to help me possibly reform my ideas ;)

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Re: The Politics Thread

There are two things about religion that make it damagging:

1) It makes claims of supreme knowledge of the truth. In claiming to know what is happening' date=' a religion encourages terrible behavior and causes comflict with others outside it. If you KNOW that God wants you to do something, then it doesn't matter how evil other people think it is anymore. You're probably gonna do it anyway.

God's will has been an excuse for everything from the Crusades to the inquisition. Religion is also the last to budge when social and political norms progress, because it has a very hard time admitting it's fallible. Thats why we still don't have women bishops or gay marriage.

2) It encourages (in some cases) rigid power structures which are very unaccountable. It places vulnerable people such as children and other ordinary citizens into the hands of people who are both higher up in the hierachy and who claim to have God on their side. The natural result, as in the Catholic Church, is widespread abuse of power.[/quote']

True-is it's flock that gullible? In the instance of the Anglican vote -the Church ministers actually supported Women bishop's -the layman did n't. Are the people the real issue?

Nope absolutely not' date=' but it would take away an incentive for people to do bad things in someone/something else's name(s) if you ask me.

Creating a better human being is not possible, I believe that you have certain characteristics from the day you're born and the way you grow up will decide which way your characteristics will grow. If you have it in you to be worse than others and your childhood was quite terrible then you're likely to be a bad person, if your childhood was good you'll probably won't be bad but there'll always be something in you that might just need a spark to make you go crazy and that's the same with people who are naturally good but grow up in a bad way, they might just need some sort of different treatment to bring up the good in them (yeah like those bad movie happy ending scripts ;)).

In the end no one knows how this works and no one will probably know (for the better imo, what good would it be if we know right from the start what kind of person someone is?), but I do think that there are ways to create a social world with the best conditions to have people need to bring up the bad side in them as less as possible, though even then you'll still have certain people with twisted minds.

Btw just for the record, I'm not talking to anyone in particular, just trying to get my ideas out to you hoping it'll help you form your opinion and in return write that down here to help me possibly reform my ideas ;)[/quote']

So the old Nature vs Nurture argument? So you fall on the side of nature traps you in a particular niche. I think the harijans of India has that same issue..

Bad things? Most religions preach a certain degree of goodness and hope for the afterlife. Is it the text or the interpretation thereof or the organisation that was built upon the text/teachings that poses the issue or even a bit of each?

lol...Well in conversations like these you talk to no one and everyone-and change in behavior comes from learning which is an internal thing. Reform?! Sorry not into reforming-to each his own I say:)

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Re: The Politics Thread

True-is it's flock that gullible? In the instance of the Anglican vote -the Church ministers actually supported Women bishop's -the layman did n't. Are the people the real issue?

So the old Nature vs Nurture argument? So you fall on the side of nature traps you in a particular niche. I think the harijans of India has that same issue..

Bad things? Most religions preach a certain degree of goodness and hope for the afterlife. Is it the text or the interpretation thereof or the organisation that was built upon the text/teachings that poses the issue or even a bit of each?

lol...Well in conversations like these you talk to no one and everyone-and change in behavior comes from learning which is an internal thing. Reform?! Sorry not into reforming-to each his own I say:)

Once again you misinterpret my words, I have never said I am on the side of Nature in the Nature-Nurture debate. I said I think there's a bit of both in it.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Once again you misinterpret my words' date=' I have never said I am on the side of Nature in the Nature-Nurture debate. I said I think there's a bit of both in it.[/quote']

I'm miles on the nurture side of the debate. I am of the opinion that you could make practically anyone do practically anything in the right conditions.

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Re: The Politics Thread

I'm miles on the nurture side of the debate. I am of the opinion that you could make practically anyone do practically anything in the right conditions.

Yeah I agree, a good example being intelligence, I believe that with the right guidance and dedication, anyone can achieve good grade etc.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Once again you misinterpret my words' date=' I have never said I am on the side of Nature in the Nature-Nurture debate. I said I think there's a bit of both in it.[/quote']

Aye :)

I'm miles on the nurture side of the debate. I am of the opinion that you could make practically anyone do practically anything in the right conditions.

Almost-ppl tend to surprise (in a good way and bad) ..

Yeah I agree' date=' a good example being intelligence, I believe that with the right guidance and dedication, anyone can achieve good grade etc.[/quote']

intelligience?! Isn't school mostly about rote learning..memorization and regurgitation?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Here's my view on religion:

Coming from a Catholic family, I was made to believe in god from an early age. I was taken to church maybe once twice a month, had my own bible, which I read about 20 times before i was 12, but since then it was just an odd visit on Easter and Christmas days. Recently I thought to myself. Did I ever have a choice, or was even able to question the existence of the almighty?

That's when i started to think about things with logic and began to ask questions like, why do people believe in god? Is it because they're forced to? By the media, by their teachers, even by their own family!

Basically I came to my own theory of things.

People from religious families are made to believe in god from young age, and they do because their own parents are telling them so, very few would ever question that. They grow up following a religious path, some more-so than others, yet still never contemplate the fact that what they believe is their lord, they've never seen with their own eyes. It's a bit like telling them Santa Claus is real and they believe it all the same, the difference is, no one tells them Jesus ain't real so they don't even question it. It goes the same for Muslims and Catholics. Now imagine if from tomorrow, children were never taught religion, and would just grow up as an individual separated by only their skin colour. The question then arises would the world be at piece without religious wars, and fights and arguments, or would the coin flip on the other side, and the people wouldn't feel like they're held back from going to hell, and commit even more crimes, a lot of people in fact fear god far more than prison or dieing themselves, and that's how much brainwashed they are.

So in my opinion, religion is there for 1, stop people to an extent from committing evil sins, and 2, since there isn't just 1 religion, cause wars between them.

Since I started to question religion earlier this year, bible is no more than children's fairytale to me, and god is no more than the main character in it.

Just my 2 cents on it, feel free to disagree and I won't blame you for it lol

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Re: The Politics Thread

Here's my view on religion:

Coming from a Catholic family' date=' I was made to believe in god from an early age. I was taken to church maybe once twice a month, had my own bible, which I read about 20 times before i was 12, but since then it was just an odd visit on Easter and Christmas days. Recently I thought to myself. Did I ever have a choice, or was even able to question the existence of the almighty?

That's when i started to think about things with logic and began to ask questions like, why do people believe in god? Is it because they're forced to? By the media, by their teachers, even by their own family!

Basically I came to my own theory of things.

People from religious families are made to believe in god from young age, and they do because their own parents are telling them so, very few would ever question that. They grow up following a religious path, some more-so than others, yet still never contemplate the fact that what they believe is their lord, they've never seen with their own eyes. It's a bit like telling them Santa Claus is real and they believe it all the same, the difference is, no one tells them Jesus ain't real so they don't even question it. It goes the same for Muslims and Catholics. Now imagine if from tomorrow, children were never taught religion, and would just grow up as an individual separated by only their skin colour. The question then arises would the world be at piece without religious wars, and fights and arguments, or would the coin flip on the other side, and the people wouldn't feel like they're held back from going to hell, and commit even more crimes, a lot of people in fact fear god far more than prison or dieing themselves, and that's how much brainwashed they are.

So in my opinion, religion is there for 1, stop people to an extent from committing evil sins, and 2, since there isn't just 1 religion, cause wars between them.

Since I started to question religion earlier this year, bible is no more than children's fairytale to me, and god is no more than the main character in it.

Just my 2 cents on it, feel free to disagree and I won't blame you for it lol[/quote']

I like this :)

It brought to my mind a few things a few others have said:

Ricky Gervais: "For a poor working class parent, Jesus was like a free, invisible babysitter"

gTgy1oI2JnY

Also, there's the well-known idea that religion is used to control the masses more easily -- which it does quite effectively.

Then there's something else. Author Charles Duhigg wrote about members of Alcoholics Anonymous who attributed their curing to their belief in God. When more closely examined, it was more about a belief in a higher being (or even their child), which gave them a belief that they could stop drinking.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Here's my view on religion:

Coming from a Catholic family' date=' I was made to believe in god from an early age. [/quote']

It always strikes me just how many lapsed Catholics refer to being made to believe in God? , what does that mean exactly?, being beaten to within an inch of your life by some swiveled eyed Nun? or shaken by the throat by a half crazed Priest until you swear your undying love for the almighty?. Whatever the reason it’s at odds with my own( and I believe most other peoples)experience of Christianity. Perhaps it’s a Catholic thing ?( and for the record, I have little time for that particular branch of the faith) or maybe it’s just another example of how today's ( wonderful ??) society has slowly but surely misrepresented the message of Christianity to such an extent, that it is now viewed as one of intolerance, division and war. It staggers me just how often one hears the glib comment that faith is somehow the cause of all suffering in this world, and how if somehow religion was eradicated, war and hatred would cease. Why do people so readily hold up faith as the reason for the worlds wrongs? but at the same time ignore human nature, greed, power and good old fashion evil?.

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Re: The Politics Thread

It always strikes me just how many lapsed Catholics refer to being made to believe in God? ' date=' what does that mean exactly?, being beaten to within an inch of your life by some swiveled eyed Nun? or shaken by the throat by a half crazed Priest until you swear your undying love for the almighty?. Whatever the reason it’s at odds with my own( and I believe most other peoples)experience of Christianity. Perhaps it’s a Catholic thing ?( and for the record, I have little time for that particular branch of the faith) or maybe it’s just another example of how today's ( wonderful ??) society has slowly but surely misrepresented the message of Christianity to such an extent, that it is now viewed as one of intolerance, division and war. It staggers me just how often one hears the glib comment that faith is somehow the cause of all suffering in this world, and how if somehow religion was eradicated, war and hatred would cease. Why do people so readily hold up faith as the reason for the worlds wrongs? but at the same time ignore human nature, greed, power and good old fashion evil?. [/color']

Hmmmmmmm

And i bealive in Bacon to Lee

BACON BACON BACON

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Re: The Politics Thread

It always strikes me just how many lapsed Catholics refer to being made to believe in God? ' date=' what does that mean exactly?, being beaten to within an inch of your life by some swiveled eyed Nun? or shaken by the throat by a half crazed Priest until you swear your undying love for the almighty?. Whatever the reason it’s at odds with my own( and I believe most other peoples)experience of Christianity. Perhaps it’s a Catholic thing ?( and for the record, I have little time for that particular branch of the faith) or maybe it’s just another example of how today's ( wonderful ??) society has slowly but surely misrepresented the message of Christianity to such an extent, that it is now viewed as one of intolerance, division and war. It staggers me just how often one hears the glib comment that faith is somehow the cause of all suffering in this world, and how if somehow religion was eradicated, war and hatred would cease. Why do people so readily hold up faith as the reason for the worlds wrongs? but at the same time ignore human nature, greed, power and good old fashion evil?. [/color']

Its not so much the message itself for me, it seems most Christians don't pay a blind bit of notice to it anyway. I certainly don't see Christianity as presenting a particularly convincing, inspiring or just view of the world, but you can read whatever you want into the Bible because its so ambiguous.

Its the power religious instituions assert on their members. People with power (especially power that they believe, or at least convince others is god given) are inevitably corrupt. So from the Catholic Church to the Taliban, you get various degrees of influence from people who really have no more idea of what they're talking about than anyone else. The Pope is no better (or worse) a moral arbiter than me, the problem is that people listen to him (by choice, indoctrination or pressure) and he actually has the cheek to claim infallibility.

It follows that the more rigid and self righteous a sect is, the more problematic is. Church of England is relatively mild, sunday social type church which means its not so damaging (though clearly horribly behind the times).

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Re: The Politics Thread

Just wondering, may I ask anyone who does believe in whatever religion who reads this why exactly they believe? Following up on Longnose's part where he asked how people were made to believe, I understand from his words that he believes that faith comes from within a person somewhere during childhood, so I wonder why exactly someone would believe?

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