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Re: The Politics Thread

Your right there is no way to prove how many people chose to wear it or are forced.

But lets be logical and realistic here.

Considering its NOT in their holy book' date=' has only recently emerged and will [b']clearly be uncomfortable to wear.[/b]

Why would woman chose to wear it ??

Some may do yes, the majority are forced into it by their culture for fear of rejection and others are physically forced.

Listen to some of the interviews about woman who have turned their back on the Burka.

Actually some women say it's very comfortable...

"I’m not alone in finding the abaya a comfortable garment. On my return from Saudi Arabia, other women on my plane left it until a few minutes before landing to remove their cloaks and emerge from the washrooms without their niqab. Now when I fly back from seeing my parents in Saudi Arabia, I keep on the uniform for as long as is convenient" - Nesrine Malik in the Times today. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/7896536/Burka-ban-Why-must-I-cast-off-the-veil.html)

Also agree with Longnose again on his earlier post, this is nothing more than political opportunism from Sarkozy in response to the rise of the far right in the polls.

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Guest JackWWFC

Re: The Politics Thread

Your right there is no way to prove how many people chose to wear it or are forced.

But lets be logical and realistic here.

Considering its NOT in their holy book' date=' has only recently emerged and will clearly be uncomfortable to wear.

Why would woman chose to wear it ??

Some may do yes, the majority are forced into it by their culture for fear of rejection and others are physically forced.

Listen to some of the interviews about woman who have turned their back on the Burka.[/quote']

It's a status symbol. Nothing more.

I don't agree with it, but tbh if someone wearing a Burka crashes into my car I will slap them silly.

How can they wear that while DRIVING?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Thats true but im not trying to change it as i accept its their culture and if we visit their' date=' we have to abide by their rules and adapt to their culture. Regardless if i dont agree with it i dont force my opinion on them or go against their rules.

Expect they dont do that when they come to western countries do they.

EDIT: Them and Their is in reference to Islamic states.[/quote']

Part of the Islamic faith is too try and convert others actively - unlike Christians who tend to try and convert people subtly - and thats why they tend to be very forthright in there belief system and we tend not to be so forthright in return.

Also for some reason nowadays if anyone speaks out about another culture they are straight away called a racist, so its hard too even have a decent positive debate about the issue before its shot down because people are worried about how its seen, rather than looking at answers around multicultural living and why in the main its not working, not only in Britain

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Re: The Politics Thread

Your right there is no way to prove how many people chose to wear it or are forced.

But lets be logical and realistic here.

Considering its NOT in their holy book' date=' has only recently emerged and will clearly be uncomfortable to wear.

[b']Why would woman chose to wear it ??[/b]

Some may do yes, the majority are forced into it by their culture for fear of rejection and others are physically forced.

Listen to some of the interviews about woman who have turned their back on the Burka.

While it may not be a religious requirement, some may wear it out of a sign of religious piety like some Christians wear crosses around their neck for example.

I think its probably true that a good number of them who wear it only do so as they are forced to but how would you respond to the ones who do wear it out of their own choice?

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Guest JackWWFC

Re: The Politics Thread

While it may not be a religious requirement' date=' some may wear it out of a sign of religious piety like some Christians wear crosses around their neck for example.

I think its probably true that a good number of them who wear it only do so as they are forced to but how would you respond to the ones who do wear it out of their own choice?[/font']

Yeah but, a cross is a bit more discrete then a black dress with an eye slit in it, isn't it?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Actually some women say it's very comfortable...

"I’m not alone in finding the abaya a comfortable garment. On my return from Saudi Arabia' date=' other women on my plane left it until a few minutes before landing to remove their cloaks and emerge from the washrooms without their niqab. Now when I fly back from seeing my parents in Saudi Arabia, I keep on the uniform for as long as is convenient" - Nesrine Malik in the Times today. ([url']http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/7896536/Burka-ban-Why-must-I-cast-off-the-veil.html[/url])

Also agree with Longnose again on his earlier post, this is nothing more than political opportunism from Sarkozy in response to the rise of the far right in the polls.

Point retracted.

B)

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Re: The Politics Thread

While it may not be a religious requirement' date=' some may wear it out of a sign of religious piety like some Christians wear crosses around their neck for example.

I think its probably true that a good number of them who wear it only do so as they are forced to but how would you respond to the ones who do wear it out of their own choice?[/font']

Are their no other ways to show their religious following ?

Why didnt they do this in the hundreds of others years of Islam?

It makes no sense and baffles me.

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Guest JackWWFC

Re: The Politics Thread

So do you agree with the ban on Catholic crosses in some jobs in the UK then?

No, because a Catholic cross isn't bothering anyone. Whereas a Burka is in my face and putting me off. If I can't see there face I don't want to look at there dress nevermind talk to them. To me, someone wearing that isn't trustworthy.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Not to mention displaying a cross is part of OUR cultural history.

A Catholic one isn't thats Italian history - that Catholics here took on when the Romans landed - the home grown religion of Britian is the one Henry the 8th started

Just found this when looking for history and stuff :-

However there is strong evidence that head-dress was common among pre-Islamic Arabic women. The early 3rd CE writer Tertullian clearly refers in his treatise The Veiling of Virgins to some pre-Islamic women of "Arabia" wearing a veil that covers not only their head but also the entire face.[1] These primary sources show that some women in Arabia and Persia veiled their faces long before Islam, and thus it is a cultural tradition.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Are their no other ways to show their religious following ?

Why didnt they do this in the hundreds of others years of Islam?

It makes no sense and baffles me.

But there are several places in the Qu'ran which talk about women covering themselves so it would make sense for them to do something like this. Furthermore' date=' it is not my place to say how they should show their religious devotion. Do you think they could have predicted that wearing the burkha would have caused so much trouble in today's world when they began to start wearing it?

You still haven't answered my question btw.;)[/font']

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Guest JackWWFC

Re: The Politics Thread

A Catholic one isn't thats Italian history - that Catholics here took on when the Romans landed - the home grown religion of Britian is the one Henry the 8th started

Just found this when looking for history and stuff :-

However there is strong evidence that head-dress was common among pre-Islamic Arabic women. The early 3rd CE writer Tertullian clearly refers in his treatise The Veiling of Virgins to some pre-Islamic women of "Arabia" wearing a veil that covers not only their head but also the entire face.[1] These primary sources show that some women in Arabia and Persia veiled their faces long before Islam' date=' and thus it is a cultural tradition.[/quote']

I'll dye my hair green and paint my self orange and wear a clown suit every day. Because I want to.

What's the difference between that and the burka?

It's not neccasary and unprofessional. Wear it at home, but while you're a minority or, ex minority there is no need to wear it.. looks silly & there is no need for it. Isn't there a more discrete way or supporting the religion..

If you don't like it then they can leave..

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Re: The Politics Thread

A Catholic one isn't thats Italian history - that Catholics here took on when the Romans landed - the home grown religion of Britian is the one Henry the 8th started

Just found this when looking for history and stuff :-

However there is strong evidence that head-dress was common among pre-Islamic Arabic women. The early 3rd CE writer Tertullian clearly refers in his treatise The Veiling of Virgins to some pre-Islamic women of "Arabia" wearing a veil that covers not only their head but also the entire face.[1] These primary sources show that some women in Arabia and Persia veiled their faces long before Islam' date=' and thus it is a cultural tradition.[/quote']

Simon. Lets not get to technical here.

Its been part of our culture for hundreds of years....

Whether or not the source you referenced from is true, it is a western country enforcing a law. If they wish to follow their cultural beliefs, im sorry but there is always the option of leaving.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Simon. Lets not get to technical here.

Its been part of our culture for hundreds of years....

Whether or not the source you referenced from is true' date=' it is a western country enforcing a law. If they wish to follow their cultural beliefs, im sorry but there is always the option of leaving.[/quote']

I wasn't being technical mate - I was just stating Catholicism is not part of our cultural history its an import for Italy and changed for our needs - so it isn't even true Catholicism some people follow here

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Re: The Politics Thread

I wasn't being technical mate - I was just stating Catholicism is not part of our cultural history its an import for Italy and changed for our needs - so it isn't even true Catholicism some people follow here

I agree in concept expect its been here for hundreds of years ! and the cross itself isnt just linked to Catholics either is it.

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Re: The Politics Thread

I wasn't being technical mate - I was just stating Catholicism is not part of our cultural history its an import for Italy and changed for our needs - so it isn't even true Catholicism some people follow here

Mm interesting.

However the natives of England did take up this religion ( although forced in many cases ) yet continued it. Meaning it has a place in our cultural history.

EDIT: May i add, that my issue is with the one that covers everything bar their eyes?

Thats the Burka right ?

I dont want to get my wires crossed.

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Re: The Politics Thread

i agree that it is a part of the english history and is therefore acceptable.

I'll dye my hair green and paint my self orange and wear a clown suit every day. Because I want to.

What's the difference between that and the burka?

It's not neccasary and unprofessional. Wear it at home' date=' but while you're a minority or, ex minority there is no need to wear it.. looks silly & there is no need for it. Isn't there a more discrete way or supporting the religion..

If you don't like it then they can leave..[/quote']

ermm ? the whole point of a burkha is to cover up your body and appearance to prevent people staring at you in a lustful way.

therefore you cannot just wear it at home, nothing to do with hying your hair green. some deem it necessary, it looks silly well thats a bit subjective is it not ?

i see your point but you are coming across a little rash.

there are more discrete ways of supportig the modesty of islam: a MINORITY wear full length burkhas. most leave their face open completely and jut cover their head.

thats fair enough is it not ? its just like a hoodie but made of lighter material.

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Guest JackWWFC

Re: The Politics Thread

i agree that it is a part of the english history and is therefore acceptable.

ermm ? the whole point of a burkha is to cover up your body and appearance to prevent people staring at you in a lustful way.

therefore you cannot just wear it at home' date=' nothing to do with hying your hair green. some deem it necessary, it looks silly well thats a bit subjective is it not ?

i see your point but you are coming across a little rash.

there are more discrete ways of supportig the modesty of islam: a MINORITY wear full length burkhas. most leave their face open completely and jut cover their head.

thats fair enough is it not ? its just like a hoodie but made of lighter material.[/quote']

A hoody but it covers your face.

There is no need to wear one.

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Re: The Politics Thread

noo......a hoody that covers only your head.

you asked can people not wear a more moderate dressing ?

i said yes' date=' a hijab. leaves the face clear in view.

there is a need as i stated.[/quote']

Why is there a need? There is no rule saying they HAVE to, it's choice. Just like there is a choice to die my hair green and paint my skin.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Why is there a need? There is no rule saying they HAVE to' date=' it's choice. Just like there is a choice to die my hair green and paint my skin.[/quote']

how is that relavent ?

yeah obviously it is choice. but why is that a bad thing ?

a hijab dosn't cause the problems so why would anybody possibly be against it ?

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Guest JackWWFC

Re: The Politics Thread

how is that relavent ?

yeah obviously it is choice. but why is that a bad thing ?

a hijab dosn't cause the problems so why would anybody possibly be against it ?

As far as I'm aware the Hijab isn't banned, so again, it's not relevent.

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Re: The Politics Thread

So the French have banned the burqa and other face covering garments proving once again that they are a bunch of mentals. I'd be interested to hear peoples views on this' date=' given what I've gauged from some peoples political preferences I suspect I might be in the minority in believing this measure sucks.[/quote']

I agree with you, i think this law is disgusting - what gives us the right to dictate what a particular sector of society wear, its bordering on racial discrimination. This is only going to make the divide between the Middle-East and the West even larger, i wouldn't be surprised if we see a rise in terrorism because of this as its just giving the Muslim extremists more ammunition for their cause.

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