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SM Going backwards


Scrags
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SM have revamped the method of reporting cheating. now you can no longer open a ticket, just click on the illegal transfer thing - which they always ignored anyway. Why would anyone pay for this game when it is now impossible to actually explain the cheating going on, and therefore harder to prevent people from cheating.

Today, i got an PM from someone who offered to sell me all there best players for cost price, if i buy them a game world....

how do i report that???

go to illigal transfers and press a button, i think not!

go to match fixing and report that, nope.

SM want you to pay for a service, but they dont want to have to inter-react with ANYONE. Ludicrous.

I have reported many many cheats in the past, and have (with 1 or 2 exceptions) always been very happy with the way SM dealt with it. Cheating ruins this game, and unless it's stopped, a club you have spent a LOT of time getting into top class position becomes useless because 1 person can ruin a game world.

when someone comes into a game world and takes over 3/4/5 clubs - how do you report it??

there MUST be a way to report to SM using text, not just a button which does not give SM the full information required.

BE ASSURED I WILL NOT RENEW MY MEMBERSHIP

any comments on this welcome, i'd love to know what other PAYING customers think of this, and how many people think that this is essential service for paying customers.... proper support IMO is more important than these 'updates' that SM are making. We already enjoyed playing the game, but we are all aware how cheats can ruin it.

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Re: SM Going backwards

Couldn't agree more...

And i think that you should put this topic in the "SM development" section too' date=' not only here. More chances to be seen by some SM guy there...[/quote']

i moved the thread - never done such a thing before but seems to have worked. Hopefully get more feedback here.

I like all the developments and updates, but feel that this loss is too great. Stopping cheats is too important, and SM making itself in a position of no direct contact is completely wrong - especially when part of there advisertisement for gold membership is that your tickets are dealt with as a priority, and then they remove the most important part of the reporting system. in my 11 months of playing i've reported 2 program bugs - but have reported successfully with removal of managers and in many cases suspension of said manager more than 10 times - so which part of the ticket system do you think i consider the most important.

to be a real player someone willing to pay, there has to be a certain level of passion involved in what your doing, and if that is the case, a cheat can totally destroy all your efforts and 'will' if not halted.

BRING BACK THE OLD CHEAT REPORT SYSTEM - PLEASE :)

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Re: SM Going backwards

Agree 100% with you. It really is as if SM is trying to implement as many methods as possible to avoid any interaction with its CUSTOMERS.

Leaving cheating for a moment but I still feel this is relevant:

I got banned from the newspaper (fair enough) but there is absolutely no way I can communicate with anyone from SM about this other than post a comment in the community help section. Even the 'contact us' link at the bottom of the website directs be back there. Now regardless of whether I can or deserve to get this reversed, the lack of methods to actually talk to someone from SM is extremely frustrating and I'm sure there are many other things people want to highlight something with SM but can't. The numerous automated responses weren't ideal but I can't actually believe how much better that system was to how things are now!

The only recent improvement is removing the possibility of reporting deals involving unmanaged teams, if an idiot gets a dislike for you that could become irritating although not too major.

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Re: SM Going backwards

SM have revamped the method of reporting cheating. now you can no longer open a ticket' date=' just click on the illegal transfer thing - which they always ignored anyway.[/quote']

It would be wrong to assume that SM are wrong for not punishing people you are convinced are conducting an illegal transfer. SM have access to all the available info, whereas customers like you and I do not, so if SM fail to act this is usually because of lack of evidence.

They can't ban people on coincidence or theory otherwise people would be getting each other banned out of revenge/jealousy etc. There is of course a point at which coincidences stack up too much, where SM will take a less lenient view.

With the new "illegal transfer" reporting mechanism you can give more info which increases the likelihood of getting an actual cheat busted.

Why would anyone pay for this game when it is now impossible to actually explain the cheating going on' date=' and therefore harder to prevent people from cheating.[/quote']

You don't have to pay to play the game and it is not impossible to report cheats. It is generally quite easy to report cheats but if you are finding it hard to so then please provide some examples and if nobody is able to answer then let me know (by PM perhaps) and I will do my best to get a solution.

Today' date=' i got an PM from someone who offered to sell me all there best players for cost price, if i buy them a game world....

how do i report that???

go to illigal transfers and press a button, i think not!

go to match fixing and report that, nope.[/quote']

I think this is a good question and I agree the solution is not clear. I had to ask SM myself, and I have been playing far longer than is good for me. The answer, I am told, is to use the "Report" option when viewing the PM. This will flag the PM up to someone at SM who will review it. The option is, I believe, primarily intended for reporting severe abuse but it can be used in any cases where the Terms of Use are being threatened/broken.

I have pointed out to SM that this is not particularly clear, and hopefully this will be improved.

SM want you to pay for a service' date=' but they dont want to have to inter-react with ANYONE. Ludicrous.[/quote']

I don't think this is fair. They have the Answer Centre, where you can liaise with knowledgeable members of the community; SM themselves will answer if others are not able to. You also have this forum which the Devs look at along with experiences users. The forum is free of charge to us (not SM) and if they didn't care about interaction it would not be here.

I do think they are trying to spend less time answering tickets themselves by getting the community to help itself, but I support this approach on the whole. I would rather SM spent time improving the game than answering questions which, by and large and with no disrespect to anyone, are easily answered with experience or a quick skim of the online help.

I have reported many many cheats in the past' date=' and have (with 1 or 2 exceptions) always been very happy with the way SM dealt with it. Cheating ruins this game, and unless it's stopped, a club you have spent a LOT of time getting into top class position becomes useless because 1 person can ruin a game world.

when someone comes into a game world and takes over 3/4/5 clubs - how do you report it??

there MUST be a way to report to SM using text, not just a button which does not give SM the full information required.[/quote']

SM are going to put a feature into the Club List page to report multiple accounts in one gameworld. This should help you solve problems whereby one person takes multiple clubs but does not "match fix" or perform "illegal transfers" which you can already report elsewhere.

In the meantime I would suggest emailing SM with full details on support@soccermanager.com

I got banned from the newspaper (fair enough) but there is absolutely no way I can communicate with anyone from SM about this other than post a comment in the community help section. Even the 'contact us' link at the bottom of the website directs be back there. Now regardless of whether I can or deserve to get this reversed' date=' the lack of methods to actually talk to someone from SM is extremely frustrating and I'm sure there are many other things people want to highlight something with SM but can't. The numerous automated responses weren't ideal but I can't actually believe how much better that system was to how things are now![/quote']

As above you could contact someone directly on support@soccermanager.com, however, as mentioned above the Answer Centre is also viewed by SM anyway.

In any case, with the paper, bans are permanent. If you think this unfair you could suggest to SM that they change this via SM Suggestions, which again is picked up by SM.

The only recent improvement is removing the possibility of reporting deals involving unmanaged teams' date=' if an idiot gets a dislike for you that could become irritating although not too major.[/quote']

I actually feel this is a backstep as in the past it has not been impossible to perform illegal transfers with external/unmanaged clubs. Perhaps it now is impossible. Reporting a genuine deal has no ill effect on anyone.

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Re: SM Going backwards about cheating

Firstly, thank you tebthereb for your extensive reply.

quote///

It would be wrong to assume that SM are wrong for not punishing people you are convinced are conducting an illegal transfer. SM have access to all the available info, whereas customers like you and I do not, so if SM fail to act this is usually because of lack of evidence.

They can't ban people on coincidence or theory otherwise people would be getting each other banned out of revenge/jealousy etc. There is of course a point at which coincidences stack up too much, where SM will take a less lenient view.

With the new "illegal transfer" reporting mechanism you can give more info which increases the likelihood of getting an actual cheat busted.

unquote///

I have not used the new illegal transfer system so cannot comment, however whenever i use to report a cheat it is usually a case of 1 person with multiple accounts making transfer's between those clubs that would not normally be agreed. In these circumstances I would monitor many things like manager profiles, log-on times, how quickly the bid was made and then accepted, other better bids (including my own if I had) that were declined and any other usefull information. My experience with SM support proved to me that the more of this information you supplied, usually the better the response you got from SM. My concern here is not being able to supply this information, as when in the past i've tried using the illigal transfer button nothing ever happened.

I had an experience recently in one game world where a manager at ManU took over at one point 6 other clubs, myself and 3 or 4 other longer serving managers kept SM aware of all his macinations, continually having his transfer's reversed until eventually he was kicked out from most of the clubs, and finally he gave up and left completely - however, if it were not for those combined efforts that one person would have totally destroyed the game world. Without proper tickets, so that you can refer to ticket numbers etc... I dont believe this cheat would have been stopped, and my club america which i've turned from a pretty poor team to a multi cup winning and 2nd place in the league team would have become too depressing to maintain and i would have quit it, as would the other managers who were reporting the problem - in fact i had to convince them to keep up there reporting, and by turning it into a joke amongst ourselves, and laughing about it in the GW newspaper everytime transfer's were reversed we got through, although two longer serving managers (not english therefore not understanding properly unfortunatly) did quit, and that was a real shame.

Quote:///

Originally Posted by Scrags View Post

Today, i got an PM from someone who offered to sell me all there best players for cost price, if i buy them a game world....

how do i report that???

go to illigal transfers and press a button, i think not!

go to match fixing and report that, nope.

your reply

I think this is a good question and I agree the solution is not clear. I had to ask SM myself, and I have been playing far longer than is good for me. The answer, I am told, is to use the "Report" option when viewing the PM. This will flag the PM up to someone at SM who will review it. The option is, I believe, primarily intended for reporting severe abuse but it can be used in any cases where the Terms of Use are being threatened/broken.

I have pointed out to SM that this is not particularly clear, and hopefully this will be improved.

unquote.///

that's what i did, all that happened was the manager was put onto my block list, i happen to know he's made the same offer to other managers - nothing has been done.

again - how do i report that?

With regard to your further comments about it not being fair to say sm dont want to liaise with anyone, the forum is in place etc... well let's be honest, a forum is kind-of the minimum requirement for any online game, i am yet to find one that does not give a forum. Many though also have chat facilities, with access to moderators and game teamsters....

your further comments about multiple accounts without match fixing or illigal transfers - i dont see that as a problem tbh. even match fixing isn't a real problem unless the manager has many clubs then it could be.

The real cheating problem - the single thing that can ruin a game world very quickly is multiple accounts used to make unfair transfer's. And the new one as stated above (buy me a game world).

I dont know what happens when you click illigal transfer - if it gives you the opportunity to give full information then i apologise for 90% of this issue raised here, as that is all i want to be able to do. If it does not, then i stand by every word.

As for the PM - when you click on report abuse, it should offer you a form to complete to give SM the full picture, not just block the sender and nothing happens. The example I have given here happened just this week - i clicked report abuse, the message was automatically deleted, so i no longer have proof! and i can assure you that no action (as yet) has been taken by SM :(

** updated ** he was today removed as manager.... maybe some humble pie coming my way...

Still, i would prefer to have had a report ticket, but seeing some direct action is very re-assuring.

My experience on this and on other online games is that the best cheat prevention is by the players themselves - so give us the chance to help, as nothing ruins a game like cheating. I am quite a serious gamer and put a lot (too much) into being competative. I gladly pay for the games I enjoy, and all I ask is 1 thing : protect us from cheating, and let us help SM by giving us a proper reporting system. tbh, i dont care about updates or any of that, i was already very happy with the game as it was. In many circumstances games can get over developed, I just hope SM dont go down that road of over-developing the game, and lose sight of what's important - keeping the player happy.

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Re: SM Going backwards

I take it all back - I just had to report a suspected illegal transfer and now understand the new system much better.

My apologies to SM, however previously when you clicked illegal transfer nothing happened, i see now that it's been changed so that you create a ticket at that point - this works well - shame about the threat to take action against your own account if they dont agree, but i guess this does stop time-wasters.

Also with SM taking action on the guy who PM'd me to say that he'd sell his best players in return for buying hin a game world - all in all, Fair Play SM - my apologies for not having more faith.

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Guest SM Dev (Ste)

Re: SM Going backwards about cheating

I'll try to keep this post short otherwise I will be reporting a lot of what Teb has already said.

My experience on this and on other online games is that the best cheat prevention is by the players themselves - so give us the chance to help' date=' as nothing ruins a game like cheating.[/quote']

There is a minority in any online game who flaunt the rules to try and gain an unfair advantage over everyone else. Eventually they are found out, and action is taken against their account. Yes, we have the SMFA, an Automated Transfer Monitoring System (ATMS) etc to prevent these members from flaunting the rules, but we also rely on the community to report any suspicious and/or dubious behaviour.

SM have revamped the method of reporting cheating. now you can no longer open a ticket' date=' just click on the illegal transfer thing - which they always ignored anyway.[/quote']

Previously you had to create a Support Ticket to report unusual and/or dubious transfers, but now you just click on the link within the All Transfers page and follow the instructions. I take it form your update you have now used this facility (as from reading your earlier posts you hadn't used the new system)?

As for the PM - when you click on report abuse' date=' it should offer you a form to complete to give SM the full picture, not just block the sender and nothing happens. The example I have given here happened just this week - i clicked report abuse, the message was automatically deleted, so i no longer have proof! and i can assure you that no action (as yet) has been taken by SM

** updated ** he was today removed as manager.... maybe some humble pie coming my way...

Still, i would prefer to have had a report ticket, but seeing some direct action is very re-assuring.[/quote']

The reported PM is brought to our attention, we then review it and if necessary take the appropriate action. I take it from your update that the manager in question has been removed from your Game World and their account is also suspended?

when someone comes into a game world and takes over 3/4/5 clubs - how do you report it??

We will be introducing a facility to Report Multiple Accounts within the Club List page early next week.

SM want you to pay for a service' date=' but they dont want to have to inter-react with ANYONE. Ludicrous.[/quote']

Never be afraid to send me a PM as I am not 'unapproachable' or even send one to Teb as he usually brings things to my attention.

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Re: SM Going backwards about cheating

I'll try to keep this post short otherwise I will be reporting a lot of what Teb has already said.

There is a minority in any online game who flaunt the rules to try and gain an unfair advantage over everyone else. Eventually they are found out' date=' and action is taken against their account. Yes, we have the SMFA, an Automated Transfer Monitoring System (ATMS) etc to prevent these members from flaunting the rules, but we also rely on the community to report any suspicious and/or dubious behaviour.

Previously you had to create a Support Ticket to report unusual and/or dubious transfers, but now you just click on the link within the All Transfers page and follow the instructions. I take it form your update you have now used this facility (as from reading your earlier posts you hadn't used the new system)?

The reported PM is brought to our attention, we then review it and if necessary take the appropriate action. I take it from your update that the manager in question has been removed from your Game World and their account is also suspended?

[b']We will be introducing a facility to Report Multiple Accounts within the Club List page early next week.[/b]

Never be afraid to send me a PM as I am not 'unapproachable' or even send one to Teb as he usually brings things to my attention.

That is excellent news and for me the main thing that has been missing!

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Re: SM Going backwards

Ste ~

The bottom line is that SM have made it much MUCH more difficult to report cheating. Glad to see that you will be reinstating in the "Report Multiple Accounts" option for reporting cheating managers. However in the time that you forgot to add it back to the functionality on here, most Game Worlds have been overrun with Multiple Accounts.

The functionality to Report Multiple Accounts was there previously before the interface/functionality changes to the Help and Contact sections. It should have been included with those changes. In effect what SM did was take functionality away from the Users.

Anyway, glad to see that you will be reinstating it, but it should have never been taken away to begin with.

That said, in the months and months that it's taken SM to finally suggest that they are going to reinstate the Report Multiple Accounts functionality, all of the Game Worlds that I participate in are overrun with Multiple Accounts. I am sure that I am not alone in recognizing this.

Because of this, the quality of the game and the User Experience on here has fallen.

Hopefully you will have the Devs and the rest of SM take all this into account next time they think about taking away existing functionality from the Users if even for a few months.

JC

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Guest SM Dev (Ste)

Re: SM Going backwards

In the months and months that it's taken SM to finally suggest that they are going to reinstate the Report Multiple Accounts functionality

We changed the Support/Online Help on October 26th' date=' 2010 :confused:

All of the Game Worlds that I participate in are overrun with Multiple Accounts.

If you drop me a PM with the Game Worlds that you are participating in which are "all overrun with Multiple Accounts" and include details of your suspicions we look into this.

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Re: SM Going backwards

We changed the Support/Online Help on October 26th' date=' 2010 :confused:[/quote']

Maybe it felt like "months and months" considering all of the cheating that has been going on.

Still... over a month of taking existing functionality away from Users is preposterous.

Regardless, when you guys make a change next time, please don't take existing functionality away for even a month or even a day, especially something as important as Reporting Multiple Accounts.

If we are to believe the user numbers that you guys post on the homepage, this software/service has grown exponentially over the past 2 years. That requires quite a bit different mentality on your part and your employees' part when dealing with development and implementing functionality and customer service.

If you have one bit of code/functionality ready to go (i.e. "Illegal Transfers" functionality), implement that, but keep other existing functionality in place (i.e. "Reporting Multiple Accounts" functionality). Don't take it away or leave it out. This is a hosted piece of software, right ? You should be able to add stuff like that in your sleep and not affect the User one iota. After all that is one of the big benefits of the architecture of this product.

If you have one bit of code/functionality ready to go on a new User Interface for a particular section (i.e. Support/Online Help), but you don't have other code/functionality ready to go (i.e. "Reporting Multiple Accounts" functionality), then by all means hold off in introducing the new UI until @ a minimum you can provide Users with all of the functionality that they currently have available to them.

Anyway... glad to see you will be reinstating the Reporting Multiple Accounts functionality. It will be a very welcome return in my Game Worlds and I am sure others'.

Thanks for the offer of looking into my Game Worlds, but you have a job to do... I'll go through the help desk. Thanks again.

JC

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Re: SM Going backwards

SM - would appreciate if you lock this thread and let it die.

When i opened it i was not fully understanding the changes that had been made. I tried to open a cheating ticket for what was an exceptional case (a PM telling me he'd sell me his best players if i bought him a game world).

I reported the mail as abuse - and still suggest that when you click the report abuse button a short form to explain why would help, however SM dealt with the matter and kicked and suspended the manager - fair do's.

I had not had cause in over a month (since the change in reporting cheating) to report a cheat, so was not aware of the new system, however just yesterday I did have cause, and found that pressing the illigal transfer button gives you a form where you can enter all relevant information (previously you clicked this button and invariably nothing happened, so i always opened tickets), and basically it's not too different as before, just different methodology - and mild threats to prevent time-wasters, again fair do's. SM dealt with the cheat promptly and reversed the transfer's.

Now I understand better, the whole reason for opening this ticket is now a mute point - therefore request you close this thread, thank you.

My only slight note is that SM could have made these changes more clearly known - not just in forums, but as they did with the other updates recently implemented, have it pop-up after log in with full clear information of the new procedure's. Would certainly have saved me worries, and time.

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