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Brazil Série A Rating Predictions


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Re: Brazil Série A Rating Predictions

What are your thoughts on Santos Fred's move? Worth the money? You think he'll be a success?

Its definitely a gamble - not for Shakthar, but for Fred himself.

Fred was becoming a super player in Brazil, but when you wave 15M in front of a club they will take it. INT needed a cash injection and were getting tired of Spurs et al messing around with Damiao (who they were happy to sell) but now with Southampton weighing up a bid they might be cashing in eventually. They wanted to shift someone, so Fred was offered out for a quick buck.

Now Fred has the ability to grow in Ukraine, but im not sure he will be first team straight away. Still many players in and around the squad with fantastic ability in the attacking midfield line, Taison, Douglas Costa, Alex Texeira, Ilsinho (look at his history joined in 2007 for 8M+ and only really hitting decent form now - flitted in and out the side in his first 3 year stint before going home, and rejoing again last year ).....Alan Patrick joined in 2011 for 4M, still awaiting his chance, plus a substantial bunch of youth players coming through including Stepanenko & Grechyshkin who will probably play a central role but more deep lying....not forgetting new buys Luis Fernando & Wellington Nem in the mix too and Mkhitaryan - though likely to leave this summer, and the returning Dentinho from Besiktas...

Using deploying 1 CF & 3 AMs, coupled with 2 DMs, there are plenty of opportunities to play, as a quick look at the minutes accrued by the Shakthar squad would suggest heavy rotation in the league to prioritise Champions League performances. Such a formation is suited to Fred, as its the staple tactic of most Brazilian clubs, 2 defensive destroyers, a playmaker, a target man supported by 2 wider attacking players. Fred can play either flank or through the playmaker position, but as can all the others. Competition for places will be fierce, but competition breeds improvement.

One must remember Brazil and its clubs are a production line for exactly this purpose, decent kids will get a shot in the side, purely for building them up for a big money move (INT have the next in line already getting his turn - Otavinho)......but who knows if they will be instant hits, so many stories of failure and difficulty in adapting. In his favour he has plenty of fellow countrymen, and Shakthar seem to know what they are doing with a good track record, & if he isnt utilised, the active loan market in Ukraine for young players will prehaps see him play for a decent side to get gametime to aid his progression in seasons to come.

Interesting to look back over the last 10 years of Shakthar, this 'project' started in 02/03 with Brandao

the next wave in 2004 Matuzalem, Jadson, Elano

05 Leonardo & Fernandinho

06 Luiz Adriano (also from INT from a modest 2.5M)

07 Nery Castillo, Ilsinho, Willian

09, Douglas & Alex

2011 Alan Patrick & Dentinho

interestingly 2012 they recruited Brazilians from within Europe - Maicon on a free who scored for fun at Volyn, Taison from Metalist & Ismaily from Braga

Now 2013 the next wave of young kids from Brazil.

Nearly every season recruiting from South America, and a majority have succeeded, which is a good sign, a couple youngsters didnt amount to much ie Leonardo, and some were expensive mistakes ie Nery Castillo, Marcelo Moreno, but generally they have done very well in developing these young players to sell on, much alike the Brazilian club model

Shakthar outlaid nearly 30M on these 3, but having couped 65M from Willian & Fernanindo & being stinking rich anyway, they have the cash to at least attempt to develop more Samba stars in hope for the next big payday from Europes elite, so being 'worth the money' is not an issue for the money men of Donetsk

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Re: Brazil Série A Rating Predictions

;2640753']Its definitely a gamble - not for Shakthar' date=' but for Fred himself.

Fred was becoming a super player in Brazil, but when you wave 15M in front of a club they will take it. INT needed a cash injection and were getting tired of Spurs et al messing around with Damiao (who they were happy to sell) but now with Southampton weighing up a bid they might be cashing in eventually. They wanted to shift someone, so Fred was offered out for a quick buck.

Now Fred has the ability to grow in Ukraine, but im not sure he will be first team straight away. Still many players in and around the squad with fantastic ability in the attacking midfield line, Taison, Douglas Costa, Alex Texeira, Ilsinho (look at his history joined in 2007 for 8M+ and only really hitting decent form now - flitted in and out the side in his first 3 year stint before going home, and rejoing again last year ).....Alan Patrick joined in 2011 for 4M, still awaiting his chance, plus a substantial bunch of youth players coming through including Stepanenko & Grechyshkin who will probably play a central role but more deep lying....not forgetting new buys Luis Fernando & Wellington Nem in the mix too and Mkhitaryan - though likely to leave this summer, and the returning Dentinho from Besiktas...

Using deploying 1 CF & 3 AMs, coupled with 2 DMs, there are plenty of opportunities to play, as a quick look at the minutes accrued by the Shakthar squad would suggest heavy rotation in the league to prioritise Champions League performances. Such a formation is suited to Fred, as its the staple tactic of most Brazilian clubs, 2 defensive destroyers, a playmaker, a target man supported by 2 wider attacking players. Fred can play either flank or through the playmaker position, but as can all the others. Competition for places will be fierce, but competition breeds improvement.

One must remember Brazil and its clubs are a production line for exactly this purpose, decent kids will get a shot in the side, purely for building them up for a big money move (INT have the next in line already getting his turn - Otavinho)......but who knows if they will be instant hits, so many stories of failure and difficulty in adapting. In his favour he has plenty of fellow countrymen, and Shakthar seem to know what they are doing with a good track record, & if he isnt utilised, the active loan market in Ukraine for young players will prehaps see him play for a decent side to get gametime to aid his progression in seasons to come.

...

[/quote']

Thanks for the detailed response. I was pretty suprised about his move considering he'd only had one full season for inter. Still, if he's good enough then why not. I do think another season at inter would have done him the world of good though.

What about Bernard? He's been linked with a big money move to Spurs and Dortmund? Is he ready? I would have thought another good season before moving on would be the right thing to do but it seems he's destined to move on this summer. From what I heard, Oscar had a good couple seasons before he moved on whereas Bernard has only just had his breakout season. That makes me wonder whether a move is a bit early.

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Re: Brazil Série A Rating Predictions

What are your thoughts on Santos Fred's move? Worth the money? You think he'll be a success?

IMO Shakhtar is the most Likely place for him to succeed' date=' but wont be for some time though.

Shak payed for his potential more than his ability imo[/color']

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Re: Brazil Série A Rating Predictions

Thanks for the detailed response. I was pretty suprised about his move considering he'd only had one full season for inter. Still' date=' if he's good enough then why not. I do think another season at inter would have done him the world of good though.

What about Bernard? He's been linked with a big money move to Spurs and Dortmund? Is he ready? I would have thought another good season before moving on would be the right thing to do but it seems he's destined to move on this summer. From what I heard, Oscar had a good couple seasons before he moved on whereas Bernard has only just had his breakout season. That makes me wonder whether a move is a bit early.[/quote']

id be worried in whoever invests big money in him. He hasnt exactly done well so far this season, seems to have chronic fitness issues.

They say about small stature guys not being able to hack the Euro Leagues, & Bernard is tiny, that could be a concern

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Re: Brazil Série A Rating Predictions

;2642111']to 78 so far' date=' 80 at a push

Brazil isnt really generous for risers in the past, unless its the uber talents[/quote']

Thanks

:)

Is that Silva Ederson? (playing for Ceara SC??) Looking for a riser!

Yeah i think his name is completely different in RL

Quick questions about Dede' date=' will he play in the WC? and is there still a chance of a big move to EU? Will he keep is 90? and lastly is he any better than Luisao, Maicon, Miranda, Naldo etc other Brazilian CB's of similar rating?[/color']

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Re: Brazil Série A Rating Predictions

Thanks

:)

Yeah i think his name is completely different in RL

Quick questions about Dede' date=' will he play in the WC? and is there still a chance of a big move to EU? Will he keep is 90? and lastly is he any better than Luisao, Maicon, Miranda, Naldo etc other Brazilian CB's of similar rating?[/color']

Dede, yes he will keep 90, WC, he is currently 5th choice IMO (Thiago Silva, David Luiz, Dante, Rever then Dede), so he will definitely be in the preliminary squad. He is better than all those, Miranda is decent though as we have seen for Atleti but not really ever been considered for the NT, 7 caps in all, 6 were in 2009.

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Re: Brazil Série A Rating Predictions

;2643862']Dede' date=' yes he will keep 90, WC, he is currently 5th choice IMO (Thiago Silva, David Luiz, Dante, Rever then Dede), so he will definitely be in the preliminary squad. He is better than all those, Miranda is decent though as we have seen for Atleti but not really ever been considered for the NT, 7 caps in all, 6 were in 2009.[/quote']

Thanks, cant rep though

:(

Interesting you say Rever over Dede?

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Re: Brazil Série A Rating Predictions

Thanks' date=' cant rep though

:(

Interesting you say Rever over Dede?[/color']

He is and has been 4th choice for a while, and 1st choice domestic pick if a home based squad.

one of the best CB in brazil last few years, made team of the year in 2011 & 2012, and the Bola de Ouro team of the year last season.

he was at the Confed cup, may have glimpsed him in the celebrations, really tall guy.

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Re: Brazil Série A Rating Predictions

;2643905']He is and has been 4th choice for a while' date=' and 1st choice domestic pick if a home based squad.

one of the best CB in brazil last few years, made team of the year in 2011 & 2012, and the Bola de Ouro team of the year last season.

he was at the Confed cup, may have glimpsed him in the celebrations, really tall guy.[/quote']

Yeah I remember him from his Wolfsburg days and all the hype around him when he joined, but for some reason thought he had faded a bit since.

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Re: Brazil Série A Rating Predictions

Yeah I remember him from his Wolfsburg days and all the hype around him when he joined' date=' but for some reason thought he had faded a bit since.[/color']

dont think he even played for them did he! well the experience helped him become a better player. Plus he is a pretty decent goal threat too.

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Re: Brazil Série A Rating Predictions

;2639958']Digao is looking at +1 for sure for now' date=' but its very early doors to say he is established at the back. Wont know until the season gets underway properly. Gum is the main man, & Euzebio is kept for the important games ie Copa Lib and rested in the league. Now FLU got knocked out, have to see who gets the roles in the side. Anderson & Elivelton can fill in too..

Silvinho, hard to say yet, rotated in and out as SAO have been awful so far.

Galhardo dont even bother, sell him, firstly he is backup, secondly he is pap.. Santos just went out and bought in 2 new fullbacks. Cicinho of Ponte Preta at RB, Eugenio Mena Chile international on loan for LB.[/quote']

Just got a +3. Im not criticising you dw :P Im just saying SM look to have changed their way of ratings; bumping them up quickly and higher, not too sure if i like or love this ;)

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Re: Brazil Série A Rating Predictions

Just got a +3. Im not criticising you dw :P Im just saying SM look to have changed their way of ratings; bumping them up quickly and higher' date=' not too sure if i like or love this ;)[/quote']

hey i only said +1 for definate, but to 85 is fair enough, still puts him outside the better 2 at the club. Logical in the end. :)

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Re: Brazil Série A Rating Predictions

Neymar +1 to 92 and why? The fanboys choice perhaps? Certainly did not warrant a +1 just yet in my opinion and has got it for his move to Barcelona.

Ok he had a great Confederations Cup but that is not enough to warrant a +1 IMO.

Totally agree with you. Was a bit surprised to see him getting 92. In my opinion SM could have waited with this rise until he has made his first appearances for Barcelona (not saying that it was deserved in general but I guess the rise was inevitable).

As a Bundesliga supporter I might be biased but I think there are quite a few players of 2 CL finalists that need to be re-rated more urgently than Neymar.

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Re: Brazil Série A Rating Predictions

Totally agree with you. Was a bit surprised to see him getting 92. In my opinion SM could have waited with this rise until he has made his first appearances for Barcelona (not saying that it was deserved in general but I guess the rise was inevitable).

As a Bundesliga supporter I might be biased but I think there are quite a few players of 2 CL finalists that need to be re-rated more urgently than Neymar.

Mr Subotic is screaming for a +1!

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Re: Brazil Série A Rating Predictions

Is Paulinho done enough in Brazilian season to warrant a rise remembering he just rose as far as last February?

If that's based on Confed then I agree he's justified, but then so has +1 for Neymar.

So, I think other than SM try to overhyped Barca-Madrid player(in Neymar's case) in before more money through reservation, than SM think Confed is good enough tournament to make them rise player who played good in the tourno.

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Re: Brazil Série A Rating Predictions

Neymar +1 to 92 and why? The fanboys choice perhaps? Certainly did not warrant a +1 just yet in my opinion and has got it for his move to Barcelona.

Ok he had a great Confederations Cup but that is not enough to warrant a +1 IMO.

because there is no rhyme or reason for the ratings reviews.

Paulinho got a +1 as well.

the current format for ratings reviews is pathetic -whatever it is? I don't even know how they are done?

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