Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
SM Dev (John)

Squad Sizes

Squad Sizes  

1 member has voted

  1. 1.

    • No
      232
    • Capped at 50
      202
    • Capped at 100
      123
    • Capped at 150
      18
    • Capped at 200
      32


Recommended Posts

Re: Squad Sizes

As stated in my original post we need a cap on squads.

The liason is at what level as originally stated. We have not made this into a mountian we have simply stated that we need a upwards cap on squad level for many reasons.

OK' date=' lets recap:

1) The original post was a statement saying a cap [b']would[/b] be introduced.

2) I then said i disliked it.

3) Stegore said he wanted opinions on the size of the cap.

4) I said I found it a shame the cap itself wasnt up for discussion

5) You then said this discussion was taking place here.

6) Stegore later said a cap is something SM 'could introduce'.

Now you are saying this is not up for discussion (in a post where you go onto discuss why it should happen :confused: ), and that you only want our views on the size of the squad cap?

If that is the case I repeat my disappointment at the lack of consultation with your customers (which you denied was the case) and think that if Alan and I misinterpreted what SM wanted out of this thread, the fault was not ours.

Initial post said that realism was the concern. Then, you say it is for technical reasons. Stegore then says it is to stop financial ruin also for realism. We are then told in your last post that finances are a separate issue, and also that it is in fact technical issues and realism which is the concern. Do SM themselves know why they want this cap? The lack of clarity is not really helping this thread to be succinct as we seem to be going in circles.

Surely common sense can dictate that if limits are not introduced people can (and have as has been described on this thread) buy 260 players at £10k each thus effectively spoiling a club.
This has already been answered; it is a bit of a leap' date=' assuming large squads = club ruination. The person in the example I used has a competitive first team squad, and has sold on his profit making 10k purchases to keep financially afloat. Presuming the ruin you refer to is a financial one, you said financial concerns was a separate issue, so why mention it here as the first part of your argument? There are so many ways of countering this that surpass the idea of squad caps, all ignored so far by SM on this thread.
Believe it or not technical issues are a factor. A page with 150 players listed on it downloads more info, processes more queries and takes longer. We have asked for ideas what this amount should be and how best to implement. We originally suggested 100 players believing that this would be a fair and reasonable level, believing that this level would effect very few people. If we introduced this without any discussion then we may have had only a handful of emails about this, and not this huge debate on the forum.
This has already been addressed too. I believe it could be an issue, but I don't believe that capping squads is the only way around it. As Neller mentioned, if a page with 150 players takes too long to load, have 2 pages... problem solved, right? If that is not the case, can we please be told why rather than ignoring the suggestion? Regardless, I am sure there are countless more ways around this that the brainiacs can think of, so I really don't see the problem here. I also think people can be forgiven for doubting this point - saying 'we HAVE to have a cap, but we don't know what amount to cap at, what do you think?' seems like saying 'we haven't experienced any technical issues with this yet, have no idea at what amount it might be an issue, but we should best cap it just in case'. If this is not true, then I presume SM know the technical limit, and they should be putting a cap at this amount. I would imagine this would be very high indeed, way more than 100, so again the issue boils down to what people want, and not technical concerns.

I can already here you saying' date=' well if it only effects a few managers why bother?

The simple answer is that the game is growing and this will become more of a common problem as more people play the game. We currently have 81,260 managed clubs, if this number grows to 200,000 over this next year then even at 0.5% of clubs having over 100 players then this will mean 1,000 managed clubs being viewed with huge squadlists.[/quote']Yes, the amount of managers doing it will increase, but the percentage would stay consistently low, so what makes you think this would have any more of an impact on the community compared to now? It wouldn't. The community don't perceive this is a problem now, so they won't in the future. Or is the concern a technical one - that the more people with large squads, the more problems SM will have handling it? Don't see how that could be the case, as SM grows surely the SM servers/power will grow in tandem anyway?

The people who are most against this idea of a cap and who support a limitless squad size dont even have 100 players in their squad.

To my knowledge noone has come on this forum and said "Please dont add a cap as I have over 100 players."

People seem to be denouncing the 100 level mark and then saying I have 60 or 80 players? 100 players allows for a large senior squad of 25 players plus a huge pool of youth players' date=' 75. If people can seriously not survive with a limit of 100 players then suggest another limit.[/quote']I know several managers who have been on here and who have 100+ squads, but they haven't shouted about it because the predictable counter-argument would be that they are being selfish, so can't really blame them for not proclaiming it. Personally, I have had 100+ squads, and would like the option to remain open, I didn't harm those clubs in the slightest. I am sure you are also aware that only a very small percentage of your managers who use the forum regularly, so I think it naive to think that because nobody says 'you will ruin my 100+ team' that they do not exist (as we all know they do) or would not be concerned by it. Am not saying for a minute I could not survive without a limit, am saying I want the choice and do not see why SM cannot live with the absence of a squad cap, as it offers so little.

Limitless and computers do not mix well. We didnt introduce a limit originally' date=' but with hindsight wish we had, as we believed club balances/budgets and common sense would prevail.[/quote']I think you are too harsh on yourself here. You have already prevented squad sizes from being unlimited by not allowing managers to buy people with a negative balance. This is always going to naturally cap squad size anyway, so I think the idea of 'limitless' squads is a fantasy.
There are also other reasons for adding a limit like realism (yes clubs have there own youth system but very few players actually break through)' date=' minesweeping every new player added to the db etc.[/quote']Please find me a single instance of a club who has managed to buy every new player added to the database, or even half. This hasn't happened, cannot happen, and will not ever happen. Besides, the point about youth squads is simply that SM do not offer a true to life experience when it comes to player development. Capping squad sizes will expose this flaw, not eliminate it.
What we wanted a discussion on is what would a reasonable limit be?
OK, until I hear a good reason for doing this, I would say the only cap that would be reasonable is the one which matches what SM can reasonably handle (as mentioned earlier, slightly more than 100 i suspect).
The seperate thread regarding club debt etc is a sepertae issue. Squad size can be a contributing factor to club debt but are clearly seperate issues. As a club can have just 18 players and still be plunging into debt' date=' while a club could have 50 players and be making a profit.[/quote']OK, sure, if so please can nobody from SM mention large squad's 'ruining' a club as a reason to implement this change again?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

Teb i seriosuly think that is the best, most well structured argument / post i have ever read. it was a fasanating read ! thumbs up for so thoroughly arguing your case :D

I also understand SM's concerns , however i agree that poor clarity on the reasons to why SM want to introduce a cap is causing people to argue in circles, covering the same points again and again,

i personally see NO NEED for there to be a cap. also JOHNGORE you mentioned that not many people have over 100 players. stating that many of the forumers who are saying no have squads of 60-80 etc etc. However as time goes buy it is inevitable that more players will be added, that club will have more money to spend meaning more players WILL come into the squad, enableing them to go over the 100 + mark if they feel the need to.

If there was to be a Cap i see it fairest around 130.

Concerning financial ruin of the club, as teb rightly said, not allowing people to sign players once in debt is a great option. few ideas to help out concerning debt :

When teams are + -10 million in debt ( just roughly ) all players can be bought for 1.5 x there value. just a rough idea.

Howver you could be allowed to part ex when in debt if it is getting rid of two players and there wages add up less to the one player there are trying to buy ! slightly of topic i know but it seems finances keeps coing bak in to the thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

i'm confused...does this mean you're recapping the cap level or recapping it to a different cap altogether.... :confused:

that could of been a joke that i dont understand as im shattered, but im pretty sure it was a summary of the thread so far ! :P

apologies for my pure sense of humour IF it was a joke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

NO FOR A CAP - AT LEAST DEFFO NO FOR A CAP ON ALREADY CREATED TEAMS!

That sounds fair. It would be too much to expect managers to pick and choose what players they have to sell or release at a discounted rate because of a new cap was implemented. It would not be fair as it would thwart the strategy of the club and force the manager to sell off a player making 0$ at best if not losing some money off teh whole thing when that player may increase and a large profit could be made.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

i have 100+ players and i agree with Steve's post, one of the best posts on this forums that i have seen

And nothing more can be said lol

But ye if we need a limit surely you guys can handle more than 100 or some of my pages would just say error and etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

100 is plenty guys...dont even know why people are complaining..very few people manage more than 42 players anyway

Exactly!!

You've hit the nail on the head Tapiwa... 'very few people manage more than 42 players anyway', then why need a bloody cap!?!?! :confused::mad:

No need to say anything else here - Teb's done everything :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

Because it slows the game down for everyone else!

Those that do have 100+ players will come unstuck after 3/4 seasons anyway. Players contracts will rise if scouting was successful and then their big club will be in a pile of sh*t. As everyone knows it is near impossible to sell one player rate 75-85 let alone eighty of them! Maybe we should put the player wages up to stop this instead?

A club does NOT need 100+ players. Are there any clubs in real life that has a squad like that?! Players would simply decline. Players moral should also decrease with lack of games resulting in the player declining a contract. Not that this would worry the 100+ plus squad teams as they don't even have a second thought about playing 80% of the squad! Maybe then if a certain % of the squad were unhappy the whole squad will become unhappy due to the general mood!

The smaller clubs rely on these transfers, yet there are a few greedy managers out there that don't really do any scouting, they just blanket buy all new players rated low and in their teens and hope for the best. It is not playing the game fairly.

I'd like to see this game progress to the next level. That level being more realism. Don't get me wrong this game is fantastic and getting better by the day, but there is defo scope for more growth in this area.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

Exactly!!

You've hit the nail on the head Tapiwa... 'very few people manage more than 42 players anyway'' date=' then why need a bloody cap!?!?! :confused::mad:

No need to say anything else here - Teb's done everything :)[/quote']

Bobo - What do you do with your 100+ players?

How many of them have never played a game?

How do you plan selling these players?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

Because it slows the game down for everyone else!
Does it? I thought the concern was individual loading times. Besides that' date=' I really don't see as how less than half a percent of managers having large teams will have any noticeable impact on playing experience anyway.
Those that do have 100+ players will come unstuck after 3/4 seasons anyway. Players contracts will rise if scouting was successful and then their big club will be in a pile of sh*t. As everyone knows it is near impossible to sell one player rate 75-85 let alone eighty of them! Maybe we should put the player wages up to stop this instead?
You can part exchange out players in 2 for 1 deals though, if you found your wages becoming unmanageable.
A club does NOT need 100+ players. Are there any clubs in real life that has a squad like that?!
I am sure I do not speak simply for myself when I say that creating the 'ultimate' team is what SM is all about. That means I want as many great players as possible. Sure there are no real squads like this in real life' date=' but there are no real squads who do not have stadium upgrades, youth development etc in place to support them. Stadium upgrades may well be GM only, and youth development will probably never happen as player ratings are based on real life which means coaching etc is pretty much off the table. I think if SM start capping the type of players or quantity of players you can sign then they are taking away a fundamental element of the game - fun! :)
Players would simply decline. Players moral should also decrease with lack of games resulting in the player declining a contract. Not that this would worry the 100+ plus squad teams as they don't even have a second thought about playing 80% of the squad! Maybe then if a certain % of the squad were unhappy the whole squad will become unhappy due to the general mood!
I don't think most young, or unestablished players, would decline the opportunity to join a reserve or youth team of an established club. I agree morale should play more of an impact, but the problem with poor morale consuming the whole team is that this would also affect squads of say 30 or 40 players as well as the larger ones, which I can't see as being very popular. As for players declining contracts for not playing, I think this would discourage scouting for the future and just encourage people to buy players who are due to have an imminent wage increase.

The smaller clubs rely on these transfers' date=' yet there are a few greedy managers out there that don't really do any scouting, they just blanket buy all new players rated low and in their teens and hope for the best. It is not playing the game fairly.[/quote']It also doesn't actually exist. For the third time of asking, can someone find me an example of a manager who has bought up ALL low rated new players? Hogging and blanket buying doesn't exist. 'Minesweeping' might to a small extent, but surely manager's should be allowed to make mistakes and have a gamble on players.

I'd like to see this game progress to the next level. That level being more realism. Don't get me wrong this game is fantastic and getting better by the day' date=' but there is defo scope for more growth in this area.[/quote']I agree mate. I just don't think a squad cap progresses the game, and cannot unless the game was a very different beast. If it had been in place from day one, I would have less issue with it, but now managers are out there with huge squads that they have quite fairly built, who are now going to be left with the option of pouring away millions by releasing players in order to ever sign a new first-teamer, or to p/e out for established players (probably on higher overall wages) in 2 for 1 deals to lower squad size.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

I thought JohnGore mentiond that it slows down the server? I maybe wrong.

Part exchanging two lesser players on cheap wages for a more expensive player on higher wages is exactly why it will be the death of that club. Even then they are holding onto players that will never get a game.

Surely the ultimate squad is not one of other 100 though! That's an army not a squad!

Young players aged between 18-21 would not join a club just because it is big. There are hundreds of big clubs and I'm positive they would pick them.

Have a look at Ajax in Gold Championship 4. 118 youth players bought souly on age. A further 21 in the 1st team squad. I've pasted in the youth squad below...

VAN DUIN, Marco G 20 72 0.00 100% £88k -

LNL

PELAGOTTI, Alberto G 18 67 0.00 100% £37k 7 Turns

LNL

BONELLO, Henry G 18 65 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

LNL

POKORNI, Péter G 17 65 0.00 100% £38k 8 Turns

- MOTT, Sam G 18 62 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

LNL

MOGYOROSSY, Balázs LB/CB 18 66 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

LNL

WEEDON, Ben LB 18 61 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

LNL

CONDIE, Craig LB 17 61 0.00 100% £38k 8 Turns

- BERRY, Ryan RB/RM 18 71 0.00 100% £24k 20 Turns

LNL

DEMETRIOU, Jason RB 19 68 0.00 100% £36k 8 Turns

- MCANEARNEY, Darren RB/RM 18 68 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

- BALOGH, Miklós RB 18 67 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

LNL

MENYHERT, Gergö RB/CB 17 67 0.00 100% £38k 8 Turns

LNL

DE REGT, Ferry RB 18 65 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

- VARGA, Tamás RB/CB 18 65 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

- MACLEOD, David RB 18 63 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

- CHRISTON, Lewis RB 18 60 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

LNL

SLIJNGARD, Donovan CB 19 73 0.00 100% £203k -

LNL

BESAGNO, Nikolas CB/DM 18 72 0.00 100% £93k 7 Turns

LNL

LEE, James CB 18 72 0.00 100% £93k 7 Turns

- TOLNAI, Tamás CB/RB 18 72 0.00 100% £93k 20 Turns

- ARMSTRONG, John CB/DM 18 72 0.00 100% £93k 20 Turns

RET

MCCABE, Ross CB 18 70 0.00 100% £10k 7 Turns

- COSSENTINO, Alberto CB 18 70 0.00 100% £10k 20 Turns

LNL

TUNNICLIFFE, James CB 18 68 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

LNL

HUBER, Samuel CB 17 68 0.00 100% £38k 7 Turns

LNL

TAYLOR, Andy CB 18 65 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

LNL

INGLIS, Raymond CB 19 65 0.00 100% £36k 8 Turns

LNL

WINFIELD, Dave CB 19 65 0.00 100% £36k 8 Turns

LNL

HUGHES, Chris CB/DM 17 65 0.00 100% £38k 7 Turns

LNL

GILBRIDE, Alan CB 19 64 0.00 100% £36k 8 Turns

LNL

KIRKUP, Dan CB 18 63 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

- BARROW, Scott CB 18 63 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

- EDWARDS, Ryan CB 18 63 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

LNL

OOSTENDORP, Wade CB 18 62 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

- CASSAR, Samuel CB 18 62 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

- HATTON, Sam CB 18 62 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

- JONES, Jonathan CB 18 62 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

- SINFIELD, Nicholas CB 18 62 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

- BRIERS, Bobby CB 18 62 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

- FRANKLIN, Tom CB 17 60 0.00 100% £38k 20 Turns

- DAVIES, Dorian CB 16 60 0.00 100% £39k 20 Turns

- FOULKES, Tomos CB 18 60 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

LNL

DA SILVA, Damien D 18 69 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

- OFORI, Prince D 18 68 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

LNL

PERCHTOLD, Marco D 18 67 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

LNL

FARRUGIA, Tyrone LM/AM 18 68 0.00 100% £37k 7 Turns

LNL

BLANCO, Sebastian LM 19 66 0.00 100% £36k 8 Turns

LNL

DOROVINIS, Spiros RM 17 72 0.00 100% £96k 7 Turns

LNL

MÜLLER, Tobias RM/CM 18 71 0.00 100% £24k 7 Turns

- MCDONALD, Shaun RM 18 70 0.00 100% £10k 20 Turns

LNL

FERHAT, Kiraz RM 18 68 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

LNL

MÜLLER, Tobias RM/CM 17 68 0.00 100% £38k 8 Turns

LNL

HUSZAK, Tamás RM/CM 18 68 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

- CARGILL, Stuart RM 18 60 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

LNL

FEJSA, Ljubomir CM 18 77 0.00 100% £1.1M 8 Turns

LNL

SIVEBæK, Christian CM/RM 19 71 0.00 100% £23k 7 Turns

LNL

MILOVAC, Zoran CM 18 71 0.00 100% £24k 8 Turns

- DONE, Matt CM/AM 18 70 0.00 100% £10k 20 Turns

LNL

DRACHMANN, Janus CM 18 70 0.00 100% £10k 8 Turns

- WELLS, Ben CM/RM 18 67 0.00 99% £37k 20 Turns

LNL

PIZZA, Samuele CM 18 67 0.00 100% £37k 9 Turns

LNL

ZAIM, Alexander CM 18 67 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

- CROWTHER, Ryan CM 18 66 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

- BOSTWICK, Michael CM/CB 18 66 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

LNL

VAN DAM, Michiel CM 18 65 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

LNL

STEVENS, Jamie CM 18 64 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

- MITCHELL, Neil CM 19 64 0.00 100% £36k 20 Turns

- MCGINNESS, Melvin CM 17 63 0.00 100% £38k 20 Turns

LNL

BOZNIAC, Oliver CM/AM 18 61 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

LNL

WILSON, Derek CM 18 61 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

- VIPOND, Shaun CM 18 60 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

LNL

TRAORÉ, Mahamane M 18 75 0.00 100% £578k 8 Turns

LNL

JANSEN, Anco M 18 71 0.00 100% £24k 7 Turns

LNL

MUJANGI BIA, Geoffrey M 17 71 0.00 100% £24k 7 Turns

LNL

BUKVA, Haris M 19 70 0.00 100% £10k 7 Turns

LNL

SCORZA, Enzo M 19 70 0.00 100% £10k 8 Turns

LNL

BEICHLER, Daniel M 18 68 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

LNL

LAWAL, Ayinde M 18 67 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

- BOLZONI, Francesco M 17 67 0.00 100% £38k 20 Turns

LNL

DEAUX, Lucas M 18 66 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

LNL

WISDOW, Salomon M 18 65 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

- ISBOUTS, Erwin M 18 63 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

LNL

PISANI, Matthew M 18 61 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

LNL

RIVERA, Jaime DM 19 70 0.00 100% £10k 7 Turns

LNL

HORVATH, Ádám DM 18 67 0.00 100% £37k 9 Turns

LNL

TANTI, Glenn DM/M 18 64 0.00 100% £37k 9 Turns

LNL

THIAGO, Pinto AM 18 70 0.00 100% £10k 7 Turns

- LALLANA, Adam AM/F 18 65 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

LNL

PISANI, Duncan AM/W 18 61 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

- PISANI, Duncan AM/W 18 61 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

- BIABIANY, Jonathan W 18 65 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

- COTTON, Daniel W 18 64 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

- YATES, Jamie W/F 18 63 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

LNL

CARUANA, Brian W/F 18 61 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

LNL

SCIBERRAS, Dylon W 18 60 0.00 100% £37k 9 Turns

LNL

CLAUDIO, F 17 72 0.00 100% £96k 7 Turns

LNL

HECHALAR, Hernan F 18 68 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

LNL

DOMBAI, Viktor F 17 68 0.00 100% £38k 9 Turns

LNL

VAN MOORSEL, Paco F 17 67 0.00 100% £38k 8 Turns

LNL

MORRSION, Michael F 19 66 0.00 100% £36k 8 Turns

LNL

BELLO, Babatounde F 17 66 0.00 100% £38k 7 Turns

LNL

VIVANCO, Juan F 17 65 0.00 100% £38k 8 Turns

- BALDOCK, Sam F 18 65 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

LNL

BLACK, Jean F 18 64 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

- DOVETTA, Roberto F 18 63 0.00 100% £37k 9 Turns

LNL

ELLUL, Osbert F/W 17 63 0.00 100% £38k 7 Turns

LNL

MCNAUGHT, David F 18 62 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

LNL

MUIR, Ross F 18 61 0.00 100% £37k 8 Turns

LNL

GOOSSENS, John CF 18 75 0.00 100% £578k -

LNL

POEPON, Rydell CF 19 74 0.00 100% £361k -

LNL

MOLINS, Guillermo CF 18 71 0.00 100% £24k 7 Turns

LNL

MCGOLDRICK, John CF 18 70 0.00 100% £10k 7 Turns

LNL

MARENICH, Aleksandr CF 17 67 0.00 100% £38k 9 Turns

LNL

GARBUZ, Konstantin CF 19 67 0.00 100% £36k 8 Turns

- KOCSIS, Ferenc CF 18 66 0.00 100% £37k 20 Turns

- HINDMARCH, Stephen CF 17 66 0.00 100% £38k 20 Turns

LNL

WORRALL, David CF 16 63 0.00 100% £39k 8 Turns

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

I say leave it because theres over 22 thousand players on the database its not like there isnt enough on the game.If manager want over 100 players i say let them get on with it its there money there wasting.Not all of them are going to increase in the future so dont worry you make it sound like it is a crisis,but its not the database is always getting bigger and bigger.100 Out of 22,000 is not alot there is plenty more players for sale.Its not like there is a shortage of players.

It probably is player hogging but you can do it aswell theres nothing stopping you if you have the money.There wud be no point in scouting if you cant buy over a certain amount of players for your squad.I think that squad capping is a bad idea and there wud be no point.

ASH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

From the very point I made early, that if a cap exists then managers would have to think more carefully about who they buy and if they are really needed, then I can see no reason why a cap is a bad idea.

No club would, or should have more than 100 players plus.

I personally think 80 players is overly sufficient...

And no matter what people say about people not minesweeping youngsters, its a load of rubbish. People do it.. how many managers could wholeheartedly say they have never taken a 'punt' on a player without knowing enough about whether or not this player would be good enough to make the grade? I think a lot of this goes on, even if people here dont like to admit it.

Needless to say, a cap would encourage people to research and scout out players harder, and would ultimately provide a much more satisfying result when a player actually turns out to be a gem.

And really just fact that a manager would have to think about his/her transfers would certainly improve the game.

SAY 'YES' TO THE CAP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

It would make some manager scout players yes,but some people havnt got time to scout and it does take a long time and people who want a big youth squad would not no it anymore as they wuold not have time to scout.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

It would make some manager scout players yes' date='but some people havnt got time to scout and it does take a long time and people who want a big youth squad would not no it anymore as they wuold not have time to scout.[/quote']

Good, if thats what managers who cant be bothered to scout do. Then Im even more for the squad size cap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

Part exchanging two lesser players on cheap wages for a more expensive player on higher wages is exactly why it will be the death of that club. Even then they are holding onto players that will never get a game.
When i had 100+ squads' date=' when players wages went up, I would sell them if possible, p/e if need be for another prospect or established player, or keep them for my team if of a good enough standard. This meant the club was not harmed. Before, during and after this occurred I could still buy people. Capping squad size would mean I couldn't buy people unless (assuming it is allowed even) p/e players who I am not necessarily ready to offload. To me, this doesn't seem fair, and would force people to p/e purely to lower their squad size - thus gaining players needlessly on higher wages. Holding onto players who would otherwise be free agents seems harmless enough to me.
Surely the ultimate squad is not one of other 100 though! That's an army not a squad!
My point is that the ultimate squad should be whatever you would like it to be and whatever you wish to create.
Young players aged between 18-21 would not join a club just because it is big. There are hundreds of big clubs and I'm positive they would pick them.
True players of that age wouldn't in reality. But in the absence of true 'youth' players in SM' date=' the players of this age become the SM equivalent of youth, which is why I don't see the concern in them not playing; say 15% of players on a real life clubs' books actually plays, the same would be roughly true of a large squad with 100+ players. If we introduce something saying players wont sign because they wont get a game, we can kiss goodbye to scouting as no low rated player will ever join.
Have a look at Ajax in Gold Championship 4. 118 youth players bought souly on age. A further 21 in the 1st team squad. I've pasted in the youth squad below...
Maybe this guy knows something we don't. :) OK, maybe not, but if he did, he is doing great things for his club, and if he has bought them for the sake of it then his punishment will occur naturally. These players would just be rotting in the free agents list, and everyone had the same chance to sign them same as any other player, so I don't see the concern.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

This meant the club was not harmed. Before' date=' during and after this occurred I could still buy people. Capping squad size would mean I couldn't buy people unless (assuming it is allowed even) p/e players who I am not necessarily ready to offload.

[/quote']

Well, if the cap was introduced, i personally wouldnt use the full limit of it, for the reasons you stated above.

That would apply to a wage cap also, being that if you used all of it, then to buy new players you would firstly have to reduce the current wage bill by sacrificing other players.

Im not opposed to this concept at all, in fact I think its a good thing as again its something that would require organisation and planning from the manager.

For me it would only improve the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

Bobo - What do you do with your 100+ players?

How many of them have never played a game?

How do you plan selling these players?

Read Teb's posts - the aim of the game is to get the ultimate squad' date=' and yes, 100+ players might be the only way. Don't get me wrong, it could be I made a mistake at the beginning (3/4 seasons ago) by selling the top guys and opting for youth and depth, which infact I probably did because my av. rating is just 92 with a Barca, but just because of that I don't see why I should have to sell my players. The players will all be sold at a profit - guaranteed, and none are there for the fun of it, all are well scouted. I could also use them in p/e's from other clubs and the value goes up a lot. That will make me money and I'll be able to afford the stars.

Well Perry, when you play and you're Barca YOU WANT TO WIN. I'm not going to give Federici a game when I've got 2 92 GK's, common sense really. If there are youth or reserve games though, then yes, the young ones (obviously) will play.

See point one - mainly part exchange, but what if I don't WANT to sell them? Should I be forced to do this? NO! There are some 90's in there (in the future), so I will not want to sell them, afterall they are well scouted youngsters.

Again, if SM 'have to' do this, then do us all a favour and DO NOT put the limit to already made clubs, and give people in custom setups the chance to turn it off.

NO FOR A CAP! :mad:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

From the very point I made early' date=' that if a cap exists then managers would have to think more carefully about who they buy and if they are really needed, then I can see no reason why a cap is a bad idea.

No club would, or should have more than 100 players plus.

I personally think 80 players is overly sufficient...

And no matter what people say about people not minesweeping youngsters, its a load of rubbish. People do it.. how many managers could wholeheartedly say they have never taken a 'punt' on a player without knowing enough about whether or not this player would be good enough to make the grade? I think a lot of this goes on, even if people here dont like to admit it.

Needless to say, a cap would encourage people to research and scout out players harder, and would ultimately provide a much more satisfying result when a player actually turns out to be a gem.

And really just fact that a manager would have to think about his/her transfers would certainly improve the game.

SAY 'YES' TO THE CAP.[/quote']OK, but do people need to be forced into thinking more about whom they scout? Why should this be encouraged? Not everyone enjoys SM for doing detailed scouting. Sure people buy players knowing little about players they sign, but if they enjoy this why take away a harmless option? This is soccermanager not soccerscout - and I think as such the management of squad size and the players people sign should be down to the manager.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

Sure people buy players knowing little about players they sign' date=' but if they enjoy this why take away a harmless option? This is soccermanager not soccerscout - and I think as such the management of squad size and the players people sign should be down to the manager.[/quote']

You arent taking away their option to do this, you are merely limiting the amount of players they can do this with.

If they want to buy 20 unknown youngsters, then im sure a squad cap of 80-100 isnt going to stop them from doing this.

What it will stop though, is the purely ridiculous squads of over 100, of which there really is no need for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

Well' date=' if the cap was introduced, i personally wouldnt use the full limit of it, for the reasons you stated above.

That would apply to a wage cap also, being that if you used all of it, then to buy new players you would firstly have to reduce the current wage bill by sacrificing other players.

Im not opposed to this concept at all, in fact I think its a good thing as again its something that would require organisation and planning from the manager.

For me it would only improve the game.[/quote']The idea would have been far less problematic if in place from Day One, and yes what you say would be true if it had been. Fact is though, managers out there exist with 100+ players.

Can the advocates of the squad cap idea please say how they propose dealing fairly with these people, who have done absolutely nothing wrong? They have spent millions investing in the future, and now will have to can their plans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

You arent taking away their option to do this' date=' you are merely limiting the amount of players they can do this with.

If they want to buy 20 unknown youngsters, then im sure a squad cap of 80-100 isnt going to stop them from doing this.

What it will stop though, is the purely ridiculous squads of over 100, of which there really is no need for.[/quote']Taking away the option to have 100+ players is taking away options. I don't see any two ways about it, you can dress it up as a limit, but a limit is just a restriction on options.

I don't see who anybody is here to say that 100+ are ridiculous. If a manager like Bobo has spent time and thought on squads of 100+, there is no harm, and he has simply chosen to manage a club differently. Those that havent bothered will have lack of success as their punishment, same as is true of any squad size/transfer purchases.

Again, how are we going to deal with existing 100+ squads if this is implemented?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

OK' date=' but do people need to be forced into thinking more about whom they scout? Why should this be encouraged? Not everyone enjoys SM for doing detailed scouting. Sure people buy players knowing little about players they sign, but if they enjoy this why take away a harmless option? This is soccermanager not soccerscout - and I think as such the management of squad size and the players people sign should be down to the manager.[/quote']

I agree there is no point in a squad cap it wud take the fun out of the game.When you buy young players you want a lot of chance for the players to increase if you onli have a few youth then there is a low chance of increasing.But if you have 40-100 then there is a good chance for profit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

Again' date=' how are we going to deal with existing 100+ squads if this is implemented?[/quote']

I'd probably suggest that all the managers of squads with 100+ players, simply sack the managers and then put all of the squad on the transfer list....

Dont have a heart attack Bobo, just joking.!!

Seriously though, there would have to be an interim period for such managers, wouldnt be possible to do it overnight.

I think they would have to let the deadwood go though in all honesty. And being that their squad is 100 players plus, i dont consider that it would be too hard to decipher between the deadwood and the promosing youngsters.

Might be some tough decisions, but thats football.

I had to sell riquelme once... i cried for days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

I'd probably suggest that all the managers of squads with 100+ players' date=' simply sack the managers and then put all of the squad on the transfer list....

Dont have a heart attack Bobo, just joking.!!

Seriously though, there would have to be an interim period for such managers, wouldnt be possible to do it overnight.

I think they would have to let the deadwood go though in all honesty. And being that their squad is 100 players plus, i dont consider that it would be too hard to decipher between the deadwood and the promosing youngsters.

Might be some tough decisions, but thats football.

I had to sell riquelme once... i cried for days.[/quote']

*get's heart attack*

You HAD TO sell Riquelme? :confused: Turned out to be good anyway though..

I repeat - If this HAD TO be implemented it shouldn't be done so in the already created setups.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...