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SM Dev (John)

Squad Sizes

Squad Sizes  

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  1. 1.

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    • Capped at 50
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    • Capped at 100
      123
    • Capped at 150
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    • Capped at 200
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Re: Squad Sizes

A wage cap is just an idea. We did have one at the very start of SM precisely to stop people buying every best player on the game and therefore dominating a setup but also to stop club debt.

Stadium increases would have to be made setup wide (not just custom/gold). And would be most likely done by the chairman at the end of a season.

Sounds great. The only problem i mean about the wage cap, say i started as Grimsby with a 10k stadium. crap team. But because the wage cap would be based on my current stadium / income etc i would already be above it. Because the starting grimsby team goes into debt anyway without buying anyone. So then i would never be able to get success to improve my stadium to raise my wage cap.

I think there are so many more better things that could be added instead of the wage cap i think a wage cap would really take so much out of being a small team.

The problem isnt the wages the problem is the managers who can't handle it themselves. As i mentioned earlier us fair managers already have so many limits / restrictions due to cheats and rubbish managers lets not add anymore instead just severly punish managers who mess it up. like Frasers idea for example. I also gave an Idea to Stegore which he seemed to like and mentioned it on the other thread.

Because alot of managers like me (i also belived perry said he does the same) go a few mill into debt during a season. but the end of season earnings always put be back and give me 2million for players, The managers who go to far into debt are the ones were they get to the end of the season and there earnings / injection doesnt get them outa debt.

So if a team is still in debt after the injection thats when the punishment should occur, no need for any wage caps this way

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Re: Squad Sizes

Sounds great. The only problem i mean about the wage cap' date=' say i started as Grimsby with a 10k stadium. crap team. But because the wage cap would be based on my current stadium / income etc i would already be above it. Because the starting grimsby team goes into debt anyway without buying anyone. So then i would never be able to get success to improve my stadium to raise my wage cap.

[/quote']

Yep this been mentioned before a few times from managers that have low teams,i think S/M need to re-look at the finance structure of these clubs not just a quick fix wage cap,if they want more managers to take over these clubs,instead of making it so difficult that managers like you and others youve mentioned ,throw in the towel on these and just take big clubs.

Maybe thats the way its going to move forward in future ,dont go to the root of problem ,just cap everything. :rolleyes:

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Re: Squad Sizes

Can I just say we are trying to improve the game' date=' theres no need being negative.

We want managers to take over Grimsby (and also blackpool, heaven forbid) and do well, we do not want to hamper or limit them.[/quote']

My last part of the reply thread John was a bit of tongue in cheek,after all never let it be said i would not want someone to manage Blackpool,after all if it gets so bad can always throw themselves of the tower. :D

Would say though theres not really been what you would call negativity from both sides of the forum members that have given their opinions on your thread,

In fact most of these S/M made to the point of being negative when this thread was started by you ,because it didnt matter what they said on the subject after being told by you in your words "The laison is happening on here"

So after this comment John it has made a lot on this thread negative ,because people were led to believe nothing had been decided and what they said to try and keep it ,as it already is mattered,but as proved by all replys from start to finish the decision itself had already been made and decided upon,so that bread negative replys on one side because your mind was already set on the other.

Like i said will never bother me ,will never have squads anywhere that . :)

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Re: Squad Sizes

i think stadium ideas are easily solved' date=' i mentioned this on the debt thread and many times in the past, just work it on a similar system to prize money only staggered so that poor performances means a negative impact on 'money' (ie a decrease in stadium size) and worked out over 2 or 3 season's of performances rather than just one (clubs stadiums dont change each season in reality after all). .[/quote']

I think we discussed this on a previous thread? many times actually..

but Im with you on this one, I dont really like the idea of the stadium sizes changing..

It all boils down to how much money is going in the managers pocket each game, so this as you say, should be substituted by another means, ie sponsorship money for example, which could be calculated by division and previous few seasons form.

gates receipts would then provide another source of income, but not the be-all and end-all of income, especially helpful for managers with small stadiums.

UEFA already have a system thats calculates a teams performance from their last few seasons form in europe. goals scored, conceeded, final position in table...

SM could implement a simple bit of code which could run at the same time as the season setup, that would calculate what sum of money a club will receive every week from sponsorship or whatever you might call it.

Obviously a club that is performing well for season after season, will reap rewards from this, and under performing clubs will be stung in the pocket financially.

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Re: Squad Sizes

SM could implement a simple bit of code which could run at the same time as the season setup' date=' that would calculate what sum of money a club will receive every week from sponsorship or whatever you might call it.

Obviously a club that is performing well for season after season, will reap rewards from this, and under performing clubs will be stung in the pocket financially.[/quote']

Really like that idea, think it would work really well

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Re: Squad Sizes

Just thought I would bring this up again as have noticed that I have a few supersized squads, for whom the large squad size has been an integral part of their success.

Dynamo Kiev - WC126 - 92 man squad - 8th in Div 1, 16 games in to the season, having just been promoted. £15.9m in the bank, despite a 30k stadium (some will recall their stadium was drastically reduced in SM recently too). I have bought bargains, and reinvest them or sell them on once they mature.

Spartak Moskva - GC1 - 91 man squad - 1st in Russian and Ukraine league, 22 games into the season. Qualified for knockout phase of Champions League equivalent. Finished 2nd last season. My large 84k stadium is still making me bucket loads, on account of many of my players being bought at bargain price. Many quality players loaned out.

WBA - EC58 - 83 man squad, 5th in Div 1 behind Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd, and Liverpool. 29 turns in and am at minus £275k. I have a 92 average rated first XI. I sell people on constantly for vast profits, and loan out vast numbers to lower league managers, helping us both out.

In all setups, transfers are frequent, and competition fierce. There are players I miss out on. I have tens of millions of pounds of assets. Large squads are a valid strategy in my opinion. None of these are at 100 men strong (deliberately so, WBA had 128 once but i pulled it back) but I could easily support 100+ if I wished.

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Re: Squad Sizes

Spartak Moskva - GC1 - 91 man squad - 1st in Russian and Ukraine league' date=' 22 games into the season. Qualified for knockout phase of Champions League equivalent. Finished 2nd last season. My large 84k stadium is still making me bucket loads, on account of many of my players being bought at bargain price. Many quality players loaned out.

.[/quote']

Sounds familiar to my Porto in GC1 which started this whole debate. Although have managed to trim the players down to 102 now so some more work still to do.

Last year qualified for the knockout phase of Champions cup and runner up in the Mediterranean cup. Due to my quality in depth competing in both led to finishing only 4th in the league and missing out on the Champions cup.

This year however with the new quality players able to be brought in I am able to compete. Four points clear at the top of Mediterranean league and in the final of the SMFA cup. Also able to have some quality players learning their trade loaned out.

Same as Teb said, buy cheap then either sell or trade for maximum profit. Unless your one of the really big teams it is just about the only way possible to compete.

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Re: Squad Sizes

Just thought I would bring this up again as have noticed that I have a few supersized squads' date=' for whom the large squad size has been an integral part of their success.

Dynamo Kiev - WC126 - 92 man squad - 8th in Div 1, 16 games in to the season, having just been promoted. £15.9m in the bank, despite a 30k stadium (some will recall their stadium was drastically reduced in SM recently too). I have bought bargains, and reinvest them or sell them on once they mature.

Spartak Moskva - GC1 - 91 man squad - 1st in Russian and Ukraine league, 22 games into the season. Qualified for knockout phase of Champions League equivalent. Finished 2nd last season. My large 84k stadium is still making me bucket loads, on account of many of my players being bought at bargain price. Many quality players loaned out.

WBA - EC58 - 83 man squad, 5th in Div 1 behind Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd, and Liverpool. 29 turns in and am at minus £275k. I have a 92 average rated first XI. I sell people on constantly for vast profits, and loan out vast numbers to lower league managers, helping us both out.

In all setups, transfers are frequent, and competition fierce. There are players I miss out on. I have tens of millions of pounds of assets. Large squads are a valid strategy in my opinion. None of these are at 100 men strong (deliberately so, WBA had 128 once but i pulled it back) but I could easily support 100+ if I wished.[/quote']

As I said before, completely undertand your point, just a question...

was this cap implemented? My Sevilla squad stopped on 49 players, so I can't really check it for myself..

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Re: Squad Sizes

As I said before' date=' completely undertand your point, just a question...

was this cap implemented? My Sevilla squad stopped on 49 players, so I can't really check it for myself..[/quote']

Naa, they'll tell us when/if it is implemented Dex.

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Re: Squad Sizes

um.... in real life panathinakos has over 150 players in thare youth squad so.... yea i dunno thout id point that out

TEams in life have more the 1000 of players

with youth squads all over the world.

E.g Ac Milan have like 10-12 yoputh divisions in Italy, plus academies in Australia,Africa,America, and all over Europe.

But i have a Ac Milan with 180 players

with 60 mil+ in the bank and comfortablly in fincancial control.

The big suqad has helped me heaps

Back to back Division 1 winners, back to back World Champ Cups winners and Wong the Champ Shiled. 5 out of 6 trophies in 2 seasons.

Plus now looking for another trophy in the league.

Big suqads give me chance to cover up for players like Kaka,Nesta,and even 90 rated players injured giveing me depth.

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Re: Squad Sizes

SM gone surprisingly quiet on this, hopefully the wave of negative feedback will have caused them to rethink as at the end of the day this is simply not the best solution to the problems they have suggested it will be put in place for

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Re: Squad Sizes

Waht will the limit be if there is 1 i have 58 undergage players for celtic , This is the only way i can ever (in the distant future) have a chance to compete with Barce Real Man-U ect

& I dont hoog players as youths i opnly sign those that i think will make an improvement to my team 88/89 + potential

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Re: Squad Sizes

Dident realise there was also a topic on stadia sizes also,

I was goin to vreate a thread on been able to use money to buy stadium increases (like real life)

This would alow poeple to take control of lower league clubs (like ones they support)Sell the players in there team invest in youth & with proceeds over time build up ther stadia & watch as there investments in the youth team grow up.

Maybe the chairman will only allow a stadia to be increased if you get 85%-90 of the total size on avarage at the end of the season

If the new Player cap comes in i currently have 70/80 plaeyrs at my club this would mean id either have to Lower the quality in my first team whice i cant do cause il get relegated from the (premier league WC) OR reduce youth team whice in the long run put me even further behind barce ect

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Re: Squad Sizes

You asked what the limit would be, it said that in the thread several times. Wasn't having a go though, just trying to save covering old ground.

Which brings me back to your other post....

was goin to vreate a thread on been able to use money to buy stadium increases (like real life)

This would alow poeple to take control of lower league clubs (like ones they support)Sell the players in there team invest in youth & with proceeds over time build up ther stadia & watch as there investments in the youth team grow up.

I think this would be a gargantuan mistake if SM put control of stadium size in manager's hands. Within a few years there will be times like Accrington Stanley with 200k stadiums.

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Re: Squad Sizes

You asked what the limit would be' date=' it said that in the thread several times. Wasn't having a go though, just trying to save covering old ground.[/quote']

Ya i know

I think this would be a gargantuan mistake if SM put control of stadium size in manager's hands. Within a few years there will be times like Accrington Stanley with 200k stadiums.

Keep it in the Chairmans hands then ya ?

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Re: Squad Sizes

as i have mentioned before on this thread' date=' realism is not the issue for me. SM does not and probably will never offer a totally realistic experience because it is a game. A real club will not normally have a huge squad, true. That is a side issue.

BUT

1. It could, no cap exists.

2. It has a youth development program in place, improving it's youngsters.

3. It would get a new stadium with sustained success.

4. It would have a scouting system in place.

5. It would have U-16's, u-15'S etc.

6. It would probably have a feeder club.

All these things contribute to the long term success of a club in reality. SM does not, and shouldn't, have most of these in my opinion.

In the absence of these things, some managers have decided whilst playing SM that they wish to generate assets and possibly long term success by having vast squads. This is not realistic, but neither is it against any rules.

Now, SM are proposing a rule change that will stop people having a squad over 100. This would have been fine if implemented when SM was first created, as everyone would have known, and nobody would - or could - have gone over the cap.

So, imagine if you are a manager with a 100+ squad, and the cap was introduced, you would be unable to buy any players at that moment. This is problematic for a number of reasons.

1. One of the most enjoyable things about SM is buying a player

2. You cannot improve your first team squad.

3. Your signing policy is ruined.

How can this be solved?

1. Release players (lose a collective fortune in money you have fairly invested, when considering wages paid and initial fee)

2. Sell players (defies the purpose of buying for the future - the best scouts will have few other managers interested in their players anyway, if many others knew about it they wouldnt be that great a scout by definition - as will be selling for around cost price if lucky as players will be currently low valued and low rated)

Either way, the manager is at a huge disadvantage compared to managers who decided to spend differently, despite having played SM perfectly legitimately. All on the basis that it is more 'realistic' to change it. SM is about combining realism and playability; surely as a game it must be?

The only good thing about capping it IMO is:

1) Technical reasons - I dont believe this is actually a problem, other ways around it, and I expect the technical limit of squad sizes would be way beyond what anyone can actually achieve

2) Prevents bankruptcy - fair point, instead, just stop players from buying if their money falls below X amount, and enforce sale of any player if a bid of above cost is received, this would promote wise spending better anyway and also curtail the twits who ruin clubs by buying tons of old duffers. The people with wage/debt problems are these people, not the ones with huge squads, as the latter are thinking about the future.

3) Stops 'hogging' - this is a total myth and doesn't exist. Players change constantly on SM, and a manager who has built up a huge squad wont be in a position to forever buy new players coming out even if they wanted to. ALWAYS a new undiscovered talent out there, no manager can ever come anywhere NEAR to having them all.

4) More realistic - yes it is, but so is offering player contracts and having scouts and coaches etc, doesn't make it necessary. Could also name a dozen things that would be more important, and necessary changes that SM could make to make SM more realistic that should take precedence over squad size.

So why add it when in light of the all the negatives?! I just really don't understand it. It seems a spontaneous decision going on the original post and the blog article. More potential con's than potential pro's. Harms nobody if left alone.[/quote']

I have to agree with teb on this this one!. Spot on mate. This idea has to be abandoned. As managers have put in a lot of work to develop their squad and builld youth etc rather than spend everything on the top guns of 20. THey shouludnt be penalised.

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Re: Squad Sizes

We opened this debate a while ago regarding squad sizes and announced that the squad size was going to be limited in the near future.

We listed our reasons why we needed a cap, both technical and to keep the game/setups balanced. We have started to receive numerous support emails with people complaining that the tactics/squad screen takes an age to load and that they cannot change their starting line-up. After investigating we see that their squads have over 250 players and counting!!

The squad size limit will be intially set to 120 players.

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Re: Squad Sizes

We opened this debate a while ago regarding squad sizes and announced that the squad size was going to be limited in the near future.

We listed our reasons why we needed a cap' date=' both technical and to keep the game/setups balanced. We have started to receive numerous support emails with people complaining that the tactics/squad screen takes an age to load and that they cannot change their starting line-up. After investigating we see that their squads have over 250 players and counting!!

The squad size limit will be intially set to 120 players.[/quote']

Yeah, lol, 120 doesn't seem like a bad amount, and I've reduced my squad sizes as much as possible, so it shouldn't be a problem :)

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Guest the plummer

Re: Squad Sizes

The squad size limit will be intially set to 120 players.

take it by intially that it will decreased again in the future

really good addition ...again well done

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Re: Squad Sizes

I still don't think this is the solution, but I think I am fighting a losing battle here.

Which morons complained about it taking ages to load when they had a squad size that big?! Doesn't take a genius to work out why they are having trouble. And more than one person like this really exists on SM?! Madness.

Thanks to them for influencing a change that is not a positive one IMO... :(

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