Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
SM Dev (John)

Squad Sizes

Squad Sizes  

1 member has voted

  1. 1.

    • No
      232
    • Capped at 50
      202
    • Capped at 100
      123
    • Capped at 150
      18
    • Capped at 200
      32


Recommended Posts

Re: Squad Sizes

Mr johngore, one question here: this 120 player cap doesn't include players out on loan, does it?

Because loaning players out is precisely the thing that solves the problems of: player hogging, wage problems, tactics page loading times, etc...

I would be devastated if the cap included players out on loan!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

I still don't think this is the solution' date=' but I think I am fighting a losing battle here.

Which morons complained about it taking ages to load when they had a squad size that big?! Doesn't take a genius to work out why they are having trouble. And more than one person like this really exists on SM?! Madness.

Thanks to them for influencing a change that is not a positive one IMO... :([/quote']

I'm with you on this. Absolutely gutted!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

Quick question (can't be bothered to read 11 pages to find out the answer :rolleyes: ) What happens to squads that already have more than 120 players?

I have 124 players in one of my teams, does this mean I'm going to have to sell/release 4 players?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

honestly' date=' 50 for the first team and 50 for the youth team are still a lot to me...

is there any real life club got this much players? =\[/quote']

Plenty, I'm sure. The big ones, at least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

honestly' date=' 50 for the first team and 50 for the youth team are still a lot to me...

is there any real life club got this much players? =\[/quote']

I think, including first team, reserves and academy players, Liverpool have about 90 players :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

Need to edit my last post' date=' we are now seeing people with squads of over 350!!![/quote']

*faints*

Wakes up, computer screen still showing same post

*faints*

reoccurs a few more times.

Thats pathetic and im in 100% favour of the new rule now. go get em squad cap :P

Could you tell us what setup this is in as id love to see it ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

Need to edit my last post' date=' we are now seeing people with squads of over 350!!![/quote']

Er Mr johngore, about my question at the top of this page? This is quite important to me. Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

*faints*

Wakes up' date=' computer screen still showing same post

*faints*

reoccurs a few more times.

Thats pathetic and im in 100% favour of the new rule now. go get em squad cap :P

Could you tell us what setup this is in as id love to see it ?[/quote']

Actually I disagree.....

I will NEVER believe what John has just stated until I see the facts.

Need to edit my last post, we are now seeing people with squads of over 350!!!

That's not hard to believe, and I believe that, however I'd love to know the REAL facts and how many of these 'we are starting to see' you're referring to. I'd expect about... 1 person? Maybe, just maybe 2? Are there more? Doubt it. Anyway, I can safely say that there aren't more than 25, so for those 25 - that is what you'd call 'hogging', and is undoubtedly too much, so why does the whole community have to get the blame due to a maximum of 25 people?

Again though, as always - I'm with Teb and have been for the past 4 months. Just because I managed to get all my clubs down to under the limit it doesn't mean I've changed my mind about it :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

I still don't see a good reaosn to implement this cap.

On SM's home page we can read "more than 10.000" players... why bother if someone strategically bought more than 100 players? There are plenty others still free.

I doubt that the amout of managers happy with that decision is smaller than the amout of managers unhappy with it.

what about smaller clubs? They'll have to survive with the old players until their rating drop drastically and they die? I have more players on my youth team with Plymouth than in the main squad. I'm going to div1 next season and will eventually need replacements for the older ones...

I'm not being negative, nor I'll do that, but you can be sure that many managers will quit the game following this cap implementation.

In what this cap will help the game?

I do my scouting to get better players for my teams, but won't be able to bye them?

I wanna build a decent squad and can't buy any more players?

In fact, I can only see one reason for this, you might agree with me or not, but I think the noly reason why SM is doing it is because of Gold Membership. How come yuri?

Simple. You have a gold membership, create your own setup, choose the team you want, with the players you want, buy whoever you want with no bigger problems.

Now, you don't have a Gold membership. You join an old setup like EC1. Take a big squad to manage. See THAT player being sold almost for free, or worst, after months of scouting, SM adds all the players you've scouted to the DB......but......you cannot buy them, you cannot change your team, you can't do a thing without getting rid of some of your current team members.

Oh well...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

This would be taking a step back in my opinion.

Besides, I see another potential problem. People like me, who have clubs with 100 potentially-rising players on 3-month-long transfer bans, might get frustrated at not being able to do anything with their squad for 3 whole, long months and end up quitting, forsaking their hard work over the months acquiring these players.

Someone else will take over the club, think the same, and quit. These clubs could end up being unmanaged for quite a while as comparatively fewer people see the value of having such players and would much rather prefer buying established stars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

I am one of the people affected by the squad size restriction. I know this has been discussed in the past but it has never been stated that squad sizes would have an effect on being able to select your team. The position i'm in now is:

A) Injured and suspended players stay in the starting line-up

B) Low fitness players are selected

C) I have to rely on the autopick which has the following sort of flaws:

- In a 3-5-2 formation, the LB plays in the DM role

- In a 4-4-2 formation the LB plays at CB and a CB plays at LB

- In a 4-5-1 formation I have an 84 F picked ahead of an 89 100% fit CF

- RM's are always ahead of W's and AM's, e.g. an 82RM is better than 92 AM

OK fair enough SM decide on a squad size restriction but it isn't fair that this means you can't change your tactics. OK to stop the purchase of future players I accept - but don't players picking their tactics - this is a ridiculous concept.

The game's more or less a pointless exercise for people with 255+ squads now. You can't buy players and you can't pick the team. The only thing you can do is sell players and how much fun is that?

Some might say you're getting what you deserve for buying lots of players, but remember no SM rules were broken and in the case of all my teams I have high bank balances and a good cash flow, wages aren't a problem.

So to summarise I accept the squad size restiction, I have no choice but I do accept it anyway. But in no way can I accept that a high squad size means you can't pick your team. I treat this as a bug and one that SM should resolve quickly. This problem came without warning and has only arisen after the recent migration, I think it's a bug relating to the migration.

I believe some managers may leave SM through this and they're the very managers who been on the site for hours some days earning lots of Google income for SM, surely the enjoyment of the game for these managers needs to be borne in mind to some extent. Although as I say I accept the squad restriction.

I'm just looking for SM to fix the squad size issue with team tactics and then i'll be OK, a 120 squad limits seems reasonable it's just it's a new rule that didn't exist before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

The bug not allowing you to pick your team is due to the database using a tiny integer (0-255) to store the team positions of your players. Due to you having over 255 players in many of your clubs this is now a problem for you. We originally designed the database to only use a tiny int as we did not envisage a club needing any more than 50+ players. 255+ players is enough to field 23 teams!

You are right that this a bug and we are looking at a way of solving it so you can pick your team.

The squad limit will stop managers buying any more players if you are on or above the cap (120). We will not be forcing anyone to sell or release players.

120 players is more than enough for any club to have a first team and a huge pool of youth/reserve players.

This rule will apply for all clubs whether they are Gold or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

John,

I'm delighted to hear you'll be looking at the tactics issue as a bug, support e-mails I received did not reflect this. As long as the bug with selection of tactics is being looked at then I have no problem. It's a new bug though as it wasn't an issue last week.

Let's be honest it's been known for a long time that squad sizes would be reduced so I accept the limit of 120.

One question - To help reduce squad sizes will you allow new players to be purchased in over size squads where they part exchange 2 players?

e.g. purchase a player worth £500K for two players worth a combined 800k-£1M, this would accelerate the ability of teams with over sized squads to desize whilst also still giving them an interest in the transfer market - which most of these scout oriented managers will have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

OK, I have finally read this thread (cheers for the endless posts teb :mad::P )

From what I gather it seems to be a technical reason for this change.

I think I read on one post that a large number of players displayed on the general section of your squad somehow slows down the site or something to that effect. I fail to see how? I admit, I'm not a computer expert but I just don't get how one page with alot of players on it slows down the site....

The site works just fine from what I see with all the pages of players profiles, squads for managed clubs in every set-up, unmanaged clubs, unavailable to manage clubs, 25,000 players profile pages, league tables, players stats tables, tactics page, match reports page, the list is endless. But because people have alot of players in their squad the site slows down, I seriously just don't get it, like Ryan it would seem :confused: ....

I don't see how having such a huge squad can cause technical issues?

What happens when players that are in your youth squad turn 22? They will move into the senior squad I would assume? Thus meaning that there is a possibility of having 120 players in your senior squad. Now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what this change is supposed to stop?

So obviously having 120 players in your senior squad doesn't affect the technical side of the game that much or you wouldn't have made it possible to eventually have 120 players in your senior squad surely?

That would bring me to this conclusion and question = If it's ok to have 120 in your senior squad then why not 120 in your youth squad?

Like I have said, it's possible to have 120 players in your youth squad so it can't affect the tech side of the game that much, as it doesn't then why not allow allow a youth squad with 120 players? Or is there a difference between how the youth and senior sides affect the game technically?

If the squad lists are too big then why not split it over 2 pages when it gets above a certain number? surely that would solve the problem of having too many players on one page?

For the tactics page: again why not split it over 2 pages? Have an option to view the senior squad on one page and have an option/link that will let you view the youth squad?

Although if this is already decided then my suggestions are pointless?

My fault I suppose for not getting round to reading this thread sooner ..... :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

OK' date=' I have finally read this thread (cheers for the endless posts teb :mad::P )

From what I gather it seems to be a technical reason for this change.

I think I read on one post that a large number of players displayed on the general section of your squad somehow slows down the site or something to that effect. I fail to see how? I admit, I'm not a computer expert but I just don't get how one page with alot of players on it slows down the site....

The site works just fine from what I see with all the pages of players profiles, squads for managed clubs in every set-up, unmanaged clubs, unavailable to manage clubs, 25,000 players profile pages, league tables, players stats tables, tactics page, match reports page, the list is endless. But because people have alot of players in their squad the site slows down, I seriously just don't get it, like Ryan it would seem :confused: ....

What happens when players that are in your youth squad turn 22? They will move into the senior squad I would assume? Thus meaning that there is a possibility of having 120 players in your senior squad. Now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what this change is supposed to stop?

So obviously having 120 players in your senior squad doesn't affect the technical side of the game that much or you wouldn't have made it possible to eventually have 120 players in your senior squad surely?

That would bring me to this conclusion and question = If it's ok to have 120 in your senior squad then why not 120 in your youth squad?

Like I have said, it's possible to have 120 players in your youth squad so it can't affect the tech side of the game that much, as it doesn't then why not allow allow a youth squad with 120 players? Or is there a difference between how the youth and senior sides affect the game technically?

If the squad lists are too big then why not split it over 2 pages when it gets above a certain number? surely that would solve the problem of having too many players on one page?

For the tactics page: again why not split it over 2 pages? Have an option to view the senior squad on one page and have an option/link that will let you view the youth squad?

Although if this is already decided then my suggestions are pointless?

My fault I suppose for not getting round to reading this thread sooner ..... :([/quote']

I personaly don't think its mainly down to a techincal issue because their are a few ways around that, one of which you mentioned.

I don't mind the cap as i doubt I will reach 120 players anyway with any of my clubs.

The only thing I do mind sometimes as Bobo mentioned is the amount of restrictions all the managers get because of a few idiots.

If its down to realism then whats more unrealstic a squad with 150 players + youths or a team with 60.. 90+ players most of which dont even play a match yet still stay at the club.

Instead of a squad cap I still belive their should be a system were players get very unhappy about not playing matches and if not sold they run there contract out then quit the club, just like they would in real life. (high rated ones who wouldnt be happy with not playing)

This should partly solve the hogging problem if you can call it that because as has been mentioned everyone has the same chance to sign these players.

I think the best way to solve the page loading time is have all your players display on the squad page but maybe limit it to say 50 per page (like the find player pages).

Then you could select checkboxes or whatever next to these players to put them just into your match squad (1-16) then when u go onto the tactics page just those 1-16 would show up.

Im sure theres a few ways around it thats just the one that sprung to mind, I dont mind the squad cap but going by this thread alot of very good members dont like it at all, I reckon it would be about 10% for the cap 90% against it. just a wild guess though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

What happens when players that are in your youth squad turn 22? They will move into the senior squad I would assume? Thus meaning that there is a possibility of having 120 players in your senior squad. Now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what this change is supposed to stop?

They aren't automaticaly moved. At least it's doesn't happen with me, I have 2 22 years old players on my youth team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

The squad limit will stop managers buying any more players if you are on or above the cap (120). We will not be forcing anyone to sell or release players.

Sorry I have missed this discussion recently and after all I started all this discussion when SM discovered I had a team of 116 players. John then wrote the below on the 27th March 2007.

Squad sizes are getting out of a hand. Some squads have over 100 players in the squad which is just hogging players and plunging clubs into debt. People complain about wages but what club in real life could survive with over a 100 players on the books?

I have just looked at a club with 56 players in 1st team' date=' 56 in youth and 4 out on loan, a total of 116 players!!!

No club in real life would have a squad size larger than 50 at most.

We will be introducing a cap on squad size of 50 in 1st team and 50 in the youth squad, a maximum of 100. This number will then be reviewed (and likely decreased) in the near future.

This will not mean people will lose any players but they will not be able to sign any new players until their squads have been reduced.[/quote']

Having now got my Porto squad down to 100 players exactly, by either selling players cheaply or by dumping potentially promising players to free agency. Have I now been tricked or conned?

But what I don't understand if If it had to be 100 players in March until now. We were told that 100+ team squads were slowing down the game. Why is it suddenly 120 now? My original 116 players were already below the limit, so my team has now been penalised as it seems that I sold the 16 players for nothing. :mad:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

Very sorry to hear that HKPHOOEY, however this is no doubt your fault. I do not recall John ever saying that it is definitely 100 players, however I do recall him saying that it will be about 100 players. Even if the term used was '99%' or 'probably', that's not '100%' or 'definitely'. However I really am sorry to hear that :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

Very sorry to hear that HKPHOOEY' date=' [b']however[/b] this is no doubt your fault. I do not recall John ever saying that it is definitely 100 players, however I do recall him saying that it will be about 100 players. Even if the term used was '99%' or 'probably', that's not '100%' or 'definitely'. However I really am sorry to hear that :(
We will be introducing a cap on squad size of 50 in 1st team and 50 in the youth squad' date=' a maximum of 100. This number will then be reviewed (and likely decreased) in the near future.

This will not mean people will lose any players but they will not be able to sign any new players until their squads have been reduced.[/quote']

Think HK ment that 1st post ages ago

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

We could not introduce a cap and then introduce things like 'players fitness has not increased today as the clubs coaches couldn't physically train 150 players on the training ground.' and 'Tim Jones has requested a transfer as he is upset that he is now considered 7th choice RB' and 'Ryan McNab refuses to sign as he believes his oppotunities at a club which has 97 players will be limited.'

(Do the above not sound ridiculous??)

We can introduce this and managers will spend ages scouting players and putting in bids only for them to be rejected.

Is it not more straight forward to managers to say that you can only have 120 players at a club?

Yes there are many ways to display players on pages and have a squad page split over several pages etc but again this makes the game more complicated to play. Who would want to view a squad and then thumb through pages to see the entire squad?? Who would want to have to goto the squad page before every game and thumb through pages to select the match day 16 then goto the tactics page and pick the team?? And then release they have missed someone out and go back and pick the match day 16 again.

Again when we are seeing these huge squads it is very often people are just buying all the new young free agents that are added in the hope that one of them turns out to be good and his rating increases substantially. This is a very legitimate strategic approach to playing soccermanager, but we want to change this so people think abit more about who they buy and be successful by just picking a handful of free agents.

Free agents are designed to add players into a setup that has already started and the idea is not that a club hoovers them up on the cheap which just doesnt happen in real life.

Claiming clubs in real life have massive squads is not true. Yes they have youth academies etc but in soccermanager we just deal with players that have 'made-it' and do not include academy players and so comparing the real Liverpool with its academies etc and the soccermanager Liverpool is not a fair comparison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Squad Sizes

We could not introduce a cap and then introduce things like 'players fitness has not increased today as the clubs coaches couldn't physically train 150 players on the training ground.' and 'Tim Jones has requested a transfer as he is upset that he is now considered 7th choice RB' and 'Ryan McNab refuses to sign as he believes his oppotunities at a club which has 97 players will be limited.'

We can introduce this and managers will spend ages scouting players and putting in bids only for them to be rejected.

Is it not more straight forward to managers to say that you can only have 120 players at a club?

Yes there are many ways to display players on pages and have a squad page split over several pages etc but again this makes the game more complicated to play. Who would want to view a squad and then thumb through pages to see the entire squad?? Who would want to have to goto the squad page before every game and thumb through pages to select the match day 16 then goto the tactics page and pick the team?? And then release they have missed someone out and go back and pick the match day 16 again.

Again when we are seeing these huge squads it is very often people are just buying all the new young free agents that are added in the hope that one of them turns out to be good and his rating increases substantially. This is a very legitimate strategic approach to playing soccermanager' date=' but we want to change this so people think abit more about who they buy and be successful by just picking a handful of free agents.

Free agents are designed to add players into a setup that has already started and the idea is not that a club hoovers them up on the cheap which just doesnt happen in real life.

Claiming clubs in real life have massive squads is not true. Yes they have youth academies etc but in soccermanager we just deal with players that have 'made-it' and do not include academy players and so comparing the real Liverpool with its academies etc and the soccermanager Liverpool is not a fair comparison.[/quote']

I agree with most your points but surely anyone who breaks the page limit must not mind have them on seperate pages?

Given the choice would managers pick having them over a few pages or not being able to have them at all.

As i said im fine with 120 players its more than enough for me but when people keep using that free agents example thats just what a few idiots do in SM not all the managers with 120+ players.

I also didnt quite mean players wont sign due to you having a large squad im just giving an answer to people who say having 120+ players is unrealsitic, or buying up all the youths, free agents is an easy way to play. But i belive the squads with all the main stars is 1. kinda hogging, 2. you cant get it any easier, 3. you cant get any more unrealstic than that. for example loads of squads just have all the best players, Gerrard, Eto'o, Ronaldinho, Alonso, Riqueme, Pirlo, Xavi, Lampard, Kaka, Ronaldo, Fabrigas, Carrick, Iniesta.

half of them barely play a match all season yet they will not sell or even half the time loan them out, well for me that ruins SM alot more than squad sizes. Its those same people who usually complain about the match engine because there not winning every game.

I have a grimsby team with about 70 players, I only have a 10k stadium yet i Manage my fianances fine and I dont think ive had a player that hasnt had a rating increase, If my stadium was say 60k just think of the money and players i could have made because im sure i would have had a larger squad.

I only buy youth / future tallent with the lower clubs so im never going to have this problem, but people like Teb and Bobo like to also do this at big clubs so they odviously will buy alot more players then me.

The only problem I have is i would like to see more features that are a bonus to managers like Me, Teb etc for example the min fee on players (has nothing to do with this thread i know) but its an idea thats so popular yet the only reason I dont think its being added is because loads of idiots wont like it who like spamming your inbox with bids for your best players. probably the same morons who have 200+ players.

Mainly i would just love to see more restrictions put on these kind of people than the whole game itself dont know if im making any sense but i know what i mean :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...