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Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads


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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

To be honest, the main problem for the weaker clubs are the stadia. Neller mentioned it, but I'll do so again.

How is it that a team who has:

1) Got promoted in first year to the 3rd from 4th

2) Got promoted from the 2nd year from the 3rd

3) Lies 6th in the 3rd year in division two, 3 points away from promotion, 7 games left of the league, AND HAS NOT LOST A GAME IN 17 MATCHES!!!

..EVER have an income of 9k at home games?! Especially when the stadium can hold 10k something! Surely this HAS TO be full to the brim, if not automatically expanded for the successes of the football club, and obviously, despite having 30 players, you're in debt by 6.7m! :eek: Obviously I have no intentions of quitting the biggest success I've had in the game, but surely I must be helped out. (Talking about Bristol Rovers in Eng 3)

I think stadium increases are a must for the game to move forward, because I've got no chance whatsoever of competing in the premier (next season ;) ) with a 10k stadium with just 9k actually filling... And also, paying for increases will not be good either. I suggest something like a 40% increase in stadium size after every promotion (automatically), and that would take my stadium to 22k in the premier, which is completely fair imho, probably the lowest there will be, but at least competable with the relegation fighters :)

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

To be honest' date=' the main problem for the weaker clubs are the stadia. Neller mentioned it, but I'll do so again.

How is it that a team who has:

1) Got promoted in first year to the 3rd from 4th

2) Got promoted from the 2nd year from the 3rd

3) Lies 6th in the 3rd year in division two, 3 points away from promotion, 7 games left of the league, AND HAS NOT LOST A GAME IN 17 MATCHES!!!

..EVER have an income of 9k at home games?! Especially when the stadium can hold 10k something! Surely this HAS TO be full to the brim, if not automatically expanded for the successes of the football club, and obviously, despite having 30 players, you're in debt by 6.7m! :eek: Obviously I have no intentions of quitting the biggest success I've had in the game, but surely I must be helped out. (Talking about Bristol Rovers in Eng 3)

I think stadium increases are a must for the game to move forward, because I've got no chance whatsoever of competing in the premier (next season ;) ) with a 10k stadium with just 9k actually filling... And also, paying for increases will not be good either. I suggest something like a 40% increase in stadium size after every promotion (automatically), and that would take my stadium to 22k in the premier, which is completely fair imho, probably the lowest there will be, but at least competable with the relegation fighters :)[/quote']

Yeah i agree 100% with that, im in the same situation as Bobo in EC45, one more promotion and im in the prem with my other grimsby team, but have no chance atm on my stadium

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

SM's ideal is to be as realistic as possible and still be fun. So limitingthe amount of star players seems ridicoulous. World Clas players are regularly deprived of games; look at 1/2 the chelsea squad' date=' look a valencias joaquin, look at masherano when he played at west ham the list gioes on...[/quote']

No team has ever held all the star players in 1 team in real life, a few teams on SM have nearly all the highest rated players half on the bench this isnt really the same as 1 star not playing at a club for whatever reason.

The players that are on the bench at chelsea and co and not really massive stars like players like Xavi, etc

The chelsea player i mentioned earlier was Lampard how many times is he on the bench? and is he was a bench regular can you honestly say he wouldnt leave Chelsea?

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

No team has ever held all the star players in 1 team in real life, a few teams on SM have nearly all the highest rated players half on the bench this isnt really the same as 1 star not playing at a club for whatever reason.

take a look at barcelona.

almost all of their squad are world class, thats star enough for me. i think its based on seasonal performances, but even for barca, this is really making barca seem extreme.

if sm could introduce player AI, maybe they could be lured to another club with reasonably big offers, even tho the manager doesnt want to sell. this cld stop all star players being at one club, if other clubs manage to pry them away with lucrative deals. (ie shevchenko)

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

I personally have not found player hogging to be a problem in any of my setups, I manage 2 very different clubs in Barcelona and Bristol Rovers. Yes my barca team has a very good squad but I don't 'hog' players because if a good deal is offered for one of my players I will accept it.

In regards to the issue of club debt, I think that putting wage caps and squad limits would penalize the smaller clubs more than the larger club. If a manager puts a small club into massive debt and then leaves that club it is a case of poor management and not a problem with SM as a game. I think it is very hard for SM to legislate against poor management without restricting good or average managers who get a lot of enjoyment from playing this game. One way of making unmanaged clubs with a lot debt more desirable could be for SM to clear the debt of any unmanaged club at the end of each season (if the debt is massive that is), I don't know if this would be feasible but its just a suggestion.

On the issue of stadium size I think its crucial to the game that a small club is allowed to grow, I was thinking maybe you could pay £1m to increase your stadium capacity by 1,000 seats. So through good management with my Bristol Rovers team I could save up £500k and buy 500 extra seats that would generate income in the future.

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

On the issue of stadium size I think its crucial to the game that a small club is allowed to grow' date=' I was thinking maybe you could pay £1m to increase your stadium capacity by 1,000 seats. So through good management with my Bristol Rovers team I could save up £500k and buy 500 extra seats that would generate income in the future.[/quote']

1m for 1000 seats? And how can a 4th division team EVER get 12m to convert to seats for a little higher income?! I repeat, with 30 players my Bristol are 6.7m in debt, there is no way possible that I could increase this - I put my players for sale - it's useless.. not even the bet player, Kone, is selling for 1.5 times his value. I'll stick to my first suggestion regarding Stadium increases, I think an increase of 40% every promotion is perfect.

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

1m for 1000 seats? And how can a 4th division team EVER get 12m to convert to seats for a little higher income?! I repeat' date=' with 30 players my Bristol are 6.7m in debt, there is no way possible that I could increase this - I put my players for sale - it's useless.. not even the bet player, Kone, is selling for 1.5 times his value. I'll stick to my first suggestion regarding Stadium increases, I think an increase of 40% every promotion is perfect.[/quote']

Yes you're right there is a massive flaw to my suggestion. :o I like the idea of a 40% increase for each promotion, this would benefit the smaller teams and reward good management. But what happens when you have a club in the top division who have a small stadium capacity? There is no chance of a promotion. Perhaps when reaching the top division a system could be put in place whereby you could purchase extra seats?

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

take a look at barcelona.

almost all of their squad are world class' date=' thats star enough for me. i think its based on seasonal performances, but even for barca, this is really making barca seem extreme.

if sm could introduce player AI, maybe they could be lured to another club with reasonably big offers, even tho the manager doesnt want to sell. this cld stop all star players being at one club, if other clubs manage to pry them away with lucrative deals. (ie shevchenko)[/quote']

I still dont see were on the barcelona bench or squad players like Gerrard,Lampard,C Ronaldo, Xavi,Eto'o, Kaka as those are the kind of players that i said wouldnt be hapy with not being in the 1st 11.

Those players are in a different class to those on the Barca bench, yes they have an amazing squad but nothing like the ones i keep mentioning over and over again.

I stick to the exact same thing in the post you quoted (except you missed the important part of what i said out ;) )

The players that are on the bench at chelsea and co and not really massive stars like players like Xavi' date=' etc[/quote']

well when you say about Barcelona how many times is Xavi not in the first 11?

and if he didnt make the 1st 11 on a regular basis can you honestly say he wouldnt want to move on?

As mentioned in 1 of my other posts below im not talking about all stars being limited just the main ones which are say the elite. there are only around 25 of them and theres no way would any of them be happy with not playing regardless of what club they play for.

If the limit isnt liked then the players should at least put in transfer requests and not sign new contracts so then they could leave for nothing if not sold just like in real life

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

Yes you're right there is a massive flaw to my suggestion. :o I like the idea of a 40% increase for each promotion' date=' this would benefit the smaller teams and reward good management. But what happens when you have a club in the top division who have a small stadium capacity? There is no chance of a promotion. Perhaps when reaching the top division a system could be put in place whereby you could purchase extra seats?[/quote']

Yeah, I agree, if you want to increase the stadium capacity then (when in the top division), pay for it :) Another thing - when relegated your stadium decreases by a certain amount too, because otherwise if for example Man U go to the 4th, and get promoted again, the stadium wouldn't be that small now would it ;) And also it depends who is going to get the increases etc...

Actually, after re-thinking the situation (mainly because not all clubs have small stadia) I think it should be something as follows:

4th Division promotion - 40% increase

3rd Division promotion - 30% increase

2nd Division promotion - 25% increase

Would make it more realistic, coz for example some championship sides already have 30k+ stadiums..

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Guest SM Dev (Ste)

Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

Last week I was discussing with someone from the tech team' date=' the issues of player hogging, OAP squads, and club debt. This has also been flagged up on other threads on the forum over the past week.

Here are some current examples we aim to address:

There are some clubs who have players like Gerrard, Nesta, Puyol etc on their bench, and other established stars not even making the subs bench. This could be viewed as unrealistic, and classed as player hogging.

Some managers who take over a lower division club, try and build an instant squad, and this has long term implications. A manager will buy veteran players, who have a high rating, but can be picked up cheaply. He is only planning for the short term, and is building a squad full of OAPs.

There are several consequences of OAP squads. Firslty a club will develop a high wage bill. Due to only being a small club, the outgoings (eg wages) outstrip the clubs incomings. In turn the club starts to lose money on a weekly basis.

The club ends up in the red, and is not in a position (in most cases) to climb out of debt. Due to having several veteran players, he can not sell these for a sufficient fee to help his clubs debt.

In turn the manager will resign from the club, leaving it with a massive debt, and having a squad with a very high average age. There is only a small percentage of managers who actually take control of these clubs, but usually leave after a few turns.

The club is usually left in ruin. The club has a massive debt, and a squad who is on its last legs. A manager will not have any cash to rebuild the squad, and any money which comes in, is required to clear the debt. A no win situation.

There are also several other ways in which managers can plunge a club into debt, but I am not going to write about it, due to the space available to post.

[/quote']

Something WILL be introduced to sort out a few problems within the game, mainly in relation to club debt and player hogging (as I mentioned in my first post - which is quoted above).

We discussed several possibilites to try and address these problems:

We could limit a squads average age - setting an average limit (for example) of 32 years. Once this average is reached' date=' if you tried to buy more veteran players, your chairman would issue a message stating he wants you to buy more younger players or similar.

We could set an overdraft limit for each club, dependant of their division and setup. If a club went over this limit, the chairman would then place the highest value player on the transfer list, to try and get funds to clear the debt.

We could make the players approach the manager, if he was not happy with his playing situation (due to being left on the bench etc), and request a transfer or similar.

Then we thought of one idea that would deal with player hogging, OAP squads, and club debt. This would be in the form of a wage budget, based on the clubs income. This would stop people financially ruining a club (as mentioned above), and would also address the problem of player hogging.

There is nothing concrete a the moment, and we would like to see various views on this subject.[/quote']

The main idea of this thread (prior to going off topic), is to come up with suggestions to help resolve these issues. I have made several possible suggestions, and have invited members of the forum to come up with their own suggestions.

Several other ideas have been mentioned, and we can look into these to see if they are feasable.

eg. At the end of a season, if you are still in debt after the cash injection, then you get punished, and players sold on or realeased by the chairman. If youre in debt after the cash injection you have no chance really.

Squad size limit is a seperate issue, and please could people refer to the link below if they want to discuss that.

http://forum.soccermanager.com/showthread.php?t=7737

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

eg. At the end of a season' date=' if you are still in debt after the cash injection, then you get punished, and players sold on or realeased by the chairman. If youre in debt after the cash injection you have no chance really.

[/quote']

Excellent idea :)

If it was done that way aswell wouldnt affect managers who run there teams properly, because if the cash injection doesnt get you out of debt then the next season your debt is just going to double, and so on.

This way the worst debt the team would suffer is 1 seasons wages.

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

Excellent idea

If it was done that way aswell wouldnt affect managers who run there teams properly' date=' because if the cash injection doesnt get you out of debt then the next season your debt is just going to double, and so on.

This way the worst debt the team would suffer is 1 seasons wages.[/quote']

Yikes, better get my teams out of debt then B)B)

Agreed, it's a very good idea, just not sure in which way the players are to be sold. A suggestion I can think of is give the manager 5 turns (or any number) to get out of the debt, if he does not succeed the club is either lost or manager points (rep) are taken off :) Maybe 5 rep points for every 5 turns in debt? :o

Oh, another thing Stegore, will there be a public poll regarding both this and the squad sizes to see what the majority of the SMers think? I remember a poll or two in the left top hand corner, not sure where it's gone to, maybe it could be done for these issues. (If ever done I suggest adding a link to the threads for people to check out the pros and cons..)

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

As i see it Club Debt/OAP Squads are closely linked.The suggestion by Steve to make the price of these OAP'S more realistic seems like the best solution,it would stop managers buying up a squad full of OAP'S as the price for them would not be affordable,thus the chance of going into debt would be reduced.

Player hogging i do not see as a problem,after all there are 20,000 plus players available in SM and new players are added on a regular basis,if by some chance a manager managed to get 1,000 players this might cause a problem but i think this would be unlikely.

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

Another way it could be done although not many managers would want this im sure. But it would be more realsitic, keep clubs out of any serious debt and also mean good managment. would also sort the debt and OAP out in one.

Ok using my grimsby as an example say when i took over i had 3mil to spend, well say the wages for that season were 2.2million, take the 2.2million out of my budget to cover the current squads wages. so no wages for that team would be taken out on a weekly basis so no debt would be added for wages for that team during that season.

Then when you sign a player say i signed a player on a 4k wage i would pay the transfer fee / exchange as per usuall but then that 4k x weeks left of the season would also have to be taken out of the money, added onto the transfer fee if you like except the other club wouldnt get it odviously. but it would cover that players wages for the full season so no debt could be added.

Then if you signed an OAP even tho his price would be very low (as it would be in real life) his wages for the season would add loads onto the cash (which it would in real life) so the OAP's would cost you alot to sign, no more than they do but it would mean better management needed to sign these guys.

Lastly if you sold a player during the season you have already paid for his wages for the whole season so you would get refunded wage x weeks left as he isnt at your club now, infact thinking about it the other club would just pay your club his remaining wage because if you think about it properly say i had payed 200k on a players wage for the whole season but a few games in he was sold and i had 150k remaning on his wage then the other club have to pay that 150k as soon they sign him anyway so that would cover it.

I think the above idea would make OAP's more realistic to sign, would keep clubs out of debt totaly and also make you have to manage your teams transfer properly, i know loads wont like it as they like to sign who they like and want as much cash at the start to do it. but those are also the managers who are making SM have to do this in the first place :)

please no one reply with something stupid just read it first and post a proper reply, not "ya but i dun tik u shud pay da wages"

as Stegore said something is going to be added so we need to give proper ideas

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

Another way it could be done although not many managers would want this im sure. But it would be more realsitic' date=' keep clubs out of any serious debt and also mean good managment. would also sort the debt and OAP out in one.

Ok using my grimsby as an example say when i took over i had 3mil to spend, well say the wages for that season were 2.2million, take the 2.2million out of my budget to cover the current squads wages. so no wages for that team would be taken out on a weekly basis so no debt would be added for wages for that team during that season.

Then when you sign a player say i signed a player on a 4k wage i would pay the transfer fee / exchange as per usuall but then that 4k x weeks left of the season would also have to be taken out of the money, added onto the transfer fee if you like except the other club wouldnt get it odviously. but it would cover that players wages for the full season so no debt could be added.

Then if you signed an OAP even tho his price would be very low (as it would be in real life) his wages for the season would add loads onto the cash (which it would in real life) so the OAP's would cost you alot to sign, no more than they do but it would mean better management needed to sign these guys.

Lastly if you sold a player during the season you have already paid for his wages for the whole season so you would get refunded wage x weeks left as he isnt at your club now, infact thinking about it the other club would just pay your club his remaining wage because if you think about it properly say i had payed 200k on a players wage for the whole season but a few games in he was sold and i had 150k remaning on his wage then the other club have to pay that 150k as soon they sign him anyway so that would cover it.

I think the above idea would make OAP's more realistic to sign, would keep clubs out of debt totaly and also make you have to manage your teams transfer properly, i know loads wont like it as they like to sign who they like and want as much cash at the start to do it. but those are also the managers who are making SM have to do this in the first place :)

please no one reply with something stupid just read it first and post a proper reply, not "ya but i dun tik u shud pay da wages"

as Stegore said something is going to be added so we need to give proper ideas[/quote']

So to make this idea work as wages are now paid over a season, would you want all gate takings to be paid at the start of the season to cover the outlay on wages?

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

So to make this idea work as wages are now paid over a season' date=' would you want all gate takings to be paid at the start of the season to cover the outlay on wages?[/quote']

That's impossible though, as you do not know how long a run in a cup is going to be for, and if your team is say 1st more people SHOULD come than if you're last, so before the season you cannot get out all the info. I like Neller's idea, and think it would be very good, however the wages of a player on 5k a week (almost minimum) would already sum up to 190k, then you have to add the fee, so even if you want a youth prospect, you'd have to be pre-rich! lol :D However I like the idea :)

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

That's impossible though' date=' as you do not know how long a run in a cup is going to be for, and if your team is say 1st more people SHOULD come than if you're last, so before the season you cannot get out all the info. I like Neller's idea, and think it would be very good, however the wages of a player on 5k a week (almost minimum) would already sum up to 190k, then you have to add the fee, so even if you want a youth prospect, you'd have to be pre-rich! lol :D However I like the idea :)[/quote']

That was my point lol good idea but impractical to impletment for any but the top 30 or so clubs, because the gate takings pay the wages on a weekly basis

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

I see your points, but either way by the end of the season you have paid the same amount for that player.

The problem at the moment is because wages are not removed with your say cash you sign loads of players, then the wages take you 4-5million into debt if youre lucky then the cash injection gets you back on track.

But in most cases because a manager has made bad choices the club doesnt recover and just goes more and more into debt. and then they quit and that club is ruined for good as no manager ever bothers taking it over again.

If you have to pay the wages in advance of course they cost alot more at first but your club cannot go into debt and at the end of the season when you get your new transfer budget because you are not 4-5million in debt then you get that cash to spend.

So either way in the end it works out for the best.

As for the gate income, it could either be left as it is as you still get the cash and every week it would mount up very fast meaning you could sign more players anyway,

or you could recive some kind of lump sum based on your stadium average attendance (made by the CPU). so say my stadium is 10k i would recive the income based on a 6k attendance (average) but say you have a very successfull season and you get over the 6k per week then you would get the extra per week. Very rough idea and would need to be worked out more odviously.

As for cup runs well you would just get that extra a season depending on how far you go.

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

I have an idea; we can add the option of renting a stadium for a match. In this case based on the needed number of seats, the manager has the right to rent a stadium from the public sector for the example. The renting fee of course will be very low in comparison with a full stadium.

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

The main thing it will do is administer a massive dose of realism.smaller clubs in the lower divisions will no longer be able to rely on buying a lot of overpaid oaps as the wage bill will be too large to sustain,if not successful on the field.

One of the delights of SM is taking the Grimsbys and the Ipswichs to div 1 and hopefully in the gold setups to European football.yes managers blow their entire budget then see out the season in debt hoping for promotion or a long cup run.

nothing at all wrong with this if it bears fruit and you go onwards and upwards,discarding lower rated players and buying quality every time you have some spare cash.

The problems arise when the manager quits and the club remain unmanaged for a lenghty time.results plummet while the wages spiral out of control and ultimately the oaps retire leaving the team short of players so the team becomes about as glamorous as Vanessa Feltz giving you a lapdance.

However this too is realistic as we have seen plenty of clubs fall by the wayside trying to keep up with the premierships big boys.unmanaged clubs must be allowed to buy players from managed clubs,whether it be from the transfer list or from actually making bids to managed clubs players.

Just on a sidenote,what does happen to clubs with 18 players when a player has to retire?

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

This can apply to all teams but my Kyiv side. Ever since the stadium downsizing happened I've been leaking cash big time. I went from having 10m dollars to being in debt over 6m dollars. Even with the "increase" to 30k, i am losing money both home and away games. I love the squad I have in place, but to be honest, I will probably never make another move with it because I'll never be in the black again and I'm not about to sell my young guys for a dime on teh dollar.

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

something to share on the OAP issue.

i took up 2 teams below

Leeds

CANIZARES, Santiago G 37 92 7.26 100% £141k

VITOR BAIA, Manuel G 37 88 3.50 100% £96k

ROBERTO CARLOS, da Silva LB 33 92 7.41 89% £2.8M

MATERAZZI, Marco CB 33 92 7.48 92% £2.8M

STAM, Jaap CB/RB 34 92 7.09 75% £1.6M

WORNS, Christian CB 34 90 6.89 100% £1.4M

RAMELOW, Carsten CB/DM 33 89 5.60 100% £2.1M

ZE ROBERTO, LM/CM 32 92 7.41 95% £3.9M

DJORDJEVIC, Predrag LM/AM 34 90 7.00 100% £1.4M

BECKHAM, David RM/CM 31 91 7.52 95% £4.6M

COCU, Phillip CM/LM 36 91 7.25 95% £257k

SCHNEIDER, Bernd CM/RM 33 91 7.23 93% £2.5M

KOVAC, Niko CM/RM 35 90 7.24 100% £468k

KEEGAN, Paul CM 22 76 7.50 100% £743k

GIULY, Ludovic W/F 30 92 7.37 94% £6.1M

PIRES, Robert W/AM 34 90 7.50 93% £1.4M

KANOUTE, Frederic CF 29 93 9.00 93% £7.3M

CRUZ, Julio CF 32 91 7.81 100% £3.5M

ALEX DIAS, De Almeida CF 34 89 7.60 100% £1.2M

Everton

CANIZARES, Santiago G 37 92 7.00 100% £141k -

MALDINI, Paolo LB/CB 38 91 0.00 100% £78k -

ZANETTI, Javier RB/DM 33 94 7.00 87% £3.3M -

CAFU, RB 36 92 0.00 100% £281k -

AYALA, Roberto CB 33 94 6.67 94% £3.3M -

THURAM, Lilian CB/RB 35 93 6.33 96% £611k -

JORGE ANDRADE, Manuel CB/DM 28 93 5.33 88% £7.9M 16 Turns

STAM, Jaap CB/RB 34 92 0.00 100% £1.6M -

NEDVED, Pavel LM/CM 34 93 7.00 90% £1.8M -

ZE ROBERTO, LM/CM 32 92 0.00 100% £3.9M -

PIRLO, Andrea CM 27 96 6.67 85% £10.7M 16 Turns

LOSKOV, Dmitri CM 33 92 0.00 100% £2.8M -

COCU, Phillip CM/LM 36 91 0.00 100% £257k -

SCHNEIDER, Bernd CM/RM 33 91 0.00 100% £2.5M -

TOTTI, Francesco AM/F 30 96 7.33 92% £8.4M -

FIGO, W/AM 34 93 6.67 93% £1.8M -

GIULY, Ludovic W/F 30 92 0.00 100% £6.1M -

PIRES, Robert W/AM 34 90 0.00 100% £1.4M -

MAKAAY, Roy F 32 93 7.33 86% £4.2M -

CRESPO, Hernan CF 31 94 7.67 88% £5.9M 1 Turns

as you can see, my squad consists of players u guys will label OAP.

some brief history on my squad.

Leeds

- 1st season won div 2 title and promoted to div 1

- 2nd season won English cup. currently top of div 1 by 4 pts with 3 games to go.

Everton

- 1st season won Div 1 title, beating top teams like Chelsea, Man Utd & Arsenal on the way

at the start of the season when i got my teams, i had 2 choices to make.

with abt $20 million in the transfer kitty.

1. I can buy at most 2 superstars like eto, deco, kaka etc.. but the rest of my squad will be pathetic

2. spread out my cash to buy old players with good ratings. can get at least 6-8 of them which will highly improve my squad

of cos i went for the latter, since i did not tink that having eto as my striker and puyol as my defender and the rest of my squad basically rubbish, i'll be able to challenge with the likes of Chelsea, Man utd etc..

My teams did relatively well if you take a look at my records above. Though the downside is that my cash balance is relatively low thoughout the season due to the high wage demands of these OAPs.

Basically I think the main aim of all you SM fanatics out there is to win titles with your team, and not have substandard squad that is labelled a mid-table team (eg man city, wigan in real life) or relegation contenders (eg. west ham, watford)

I actually do want to improve my squad slowly as you can see me bringing the likes of Pirlo, Andrade, Kanoute into my squad but how many of them can I bring in?

At the start of the season, those 'big teams' will go crazy snapping up those stars. you can see some transfers like

£10.0M and Cesar JULIO BAPTISTA and Robin VAN PERSIE for KAKA

£20.0M and Louis SAHA and John O'SHEA for ETO'O

the top teams will trade out the stars they already have for even bigger stars, and to be honest, i'd definitely like to have the likes of Saha, Baptista, Van Persie, O'Shea in my squad.

All the top stars rated 93-99 will have been snapped up and thers's no way for the small teams like everton, man city, portsmouth to challenge with the top teams for all these players at the start.

By the time i have a relatively stabilised and strong squad in season 2/3, there are basically no stars left for me to buy and i'll be stuck with a squad of OAPs, whose resale values are low. Honestly, I'd rather keep them in my squad than sell them. imagine selling maldini for 200k?? dun see much point in doing that..

In all, if I manage teams like Chelsea, Barcelona, Man Utd, Arsenal, there will not be a need for me to purchase these OAPs since i can go for the superstars.. its only when u manage a lower rated team that this happens..

so do spare a thought for these managers.

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

In all' date=' if I manage teams like Chelsea, Barcelona, Man Utd, Arsenal, there will not be a need for me to purchase these OAPs since i can go for the superstars.. its only when u manage a lower rated team that this happens..

so do spare a thought for these managers.[/quote']

Good point although both idea's suggested so far wouldnt really affect managers like you who do it properly.

This is to stop the managers who sign loads of OAP's and send the club more and more into debt every season. then leaving the club and no one wanting to take over it.

Plus teams like everton who have a decent stadium can afford OAP's as they wont go that far into debt and they end of season cash puts you right back again. But the really small clubs who are signing these OAPS cannot afford them at all are just ruining whole clubs.

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Re: Club Debt/Player Hogging/OAP Squads

My thoughts...

Average Age...

I don't think this would work. People would surely just buy a few cheap 18 year olds rated as low as possible to keep the average age down?! I know I would!

Chairman intervention...

I think this is a good idea. Maybe have a limit on the number of 30+ years the chairman will invest in. Maybe no more than 5 OAP's can be bought.

Club debt...

Club's can only really get in debt with the wages. I don't believe that a club should have a wage cap on turnover. It will just mean the big teams get bigger and the smaller teams get weaker. There does need to be some intervention from the chairman though. Maybe when the club gets say £6m in debt if in division 1, down to £2m if in division 4, then the chairman will get rid of the highest earner. A warning message would be sent when you are getting close to that figure.

However that should mean that teams should be able to swap players despite being in debt. That way they can swap and OAP worth £500k for a youngster worth £500k (wages will be a lot lower).

In all I'm really pleased that this is being looked at. I do have clubs that go into debt, but its a manageable amount ie £4m by the end of the season in top division. I don't think that clubs like this should be punished though.

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