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Re: German Changes

The team someone plays for is important, eg - breaking into the Bayern Munich team is more of an achievement than getting into the Duisburg first XI and should reflected in the ratings.

Also... you need to remember with SM ratings that they are primarily based on the amount of time on the pitch a player has and how many seasons they've played for. EG - In the Bundesliga... A new player will be late 70s, occassional appearances early 80s, an established player can expect a rating of 83-85. A regular 1st choice upto 87/88. It's only above 88 that I believe players are really rated based on their ability or if they are capped by their country. This is the way I see it anyway and is reflected in my player increases...

Broken into the team...

Eric CHOUPO MOTING's rating has increased to 77.

Toni KROOS's rating has increased to 78.

Established player...

Mesut ÖZIL's rating has increased to 85.

Regular 1st team...

Stanislav SESTÁK's rating has increased to 87.

Jermaine JONES's rating has increased to 87.

Recognised to be playing well or international...

Christian PANDER's rating has increased to 89.

René ADLER's rating has increased to 89.

If they carry on getting the pitch time they currently get I would expect Choupo and Kroos to increase to 81/82, Ozil to increase to 86 and Sestak and Jones to increase to 88/89 in the next German changes. Adler and Pander would probably need caps to go any higher.

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Re: German Changes Well I just looked through the whole thread! (starting after the old rating changes). I have listed many players and hopefully did not reapeat any. Here you go: Bayern Munchen Ze

Re: German Changes Demichelis 91 - 92/93 altintop 89-91 jerome boateng 83-86+ petric 89-91 kroos 73-80 toni

Re: German Changes Not making this easy for me are ya Tom?? Ok' date=' here is the squad as per the club's website: [b']Weidenfeller, Roman (1)[/b] 06.08.1980 (1st choice GK. Solid but nit specia

Re: German Changes

Got my point mate. Exactly what I'm talking about :)

Ahmed,

Are you saying there's a bias towards english clubs (and players) on SM or are you saying that if he played for a BIG club he would've gone to 88/89?? :confused:

My arguement is this:

Where on the table would Bochum be (currently 11th) without Sestak's goals?

They have scored 25 goals in total, he personally has scored 8! That's almost 1/3rd of the teams total, add to that his 7 assists and he has played a hand in 15 of the 25 goals the team has scored in the 16 games so far this season.

Sestak's stats are class, he is averaging a goal every 2nd game and vertually the same with assists .... RESPECT I say.

If he was doing it in the EPL he's be 90+ I guarantee it! :eek::rolleyes::o

Herby

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Re: German Changes

Ahmed' date='

Are you saying there's a bias towards english clubs (and players) on SM or are you saying that if he played for a BIG club he would've gone to 88/89?? :confused:

My arguement is this:

Where on the table would Bochum be (currently 11th) without Sestak's goals?

They have scored 25 goals in total, he personally has scored 8! That's almost 1/3rd of the teams total, add to that his 7 assists and he has played a hand in 15 of the 25 goals the team has scored in the 16 games so far this season.

Sestak's stats are class, he is averaging a goal every 2nd game and vertually the same with assists .... RESPECT I say.

If he was doing it in the EPL he's be 90+ I guarantee it! :eek::rolleyes::o

Herby[/quote']

Not necessarily english clubs but bigger clubs as u stated later .same as Milan , Barcelona , Madrid etc...

Yeah deserves more , but thats how it is been done :rolleyes:

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Re: German Changes

Not necessarily english clubs but bigger clubs as u stated later .same as Milan ' date=' Barcelona , Madrid etc...

Yeah deserves more , but thats how it is been done :rolleyes:[/quote']

Nahhhh I disagree, :eek: IF we protest SM sometimes take note. Everyone is human, and when you do hundreds (and thousands of changes) it's easy to lose perspective sometimes. I'm sure if Iain or whoever at SM did the german changes, looks at my/our argument then I'd be very surprised if he didn't jump up 1 more notch to at least 88. ;)

It happened with Gomez last changes, when he went to 90 and then after he was crowned 'player of the year' in the BL, he was bumped up to 91 (and rightly so) :D

Let's wait and see until ALL the changes have been made :rolleyes:

Cheers,

Herby

p.s. Good debate in any case! And yeah I agree about players at bigger clubs having an advantage but then again as finknottle pointed out, it's also harder to break into the starting XI as a BIG club so perhaps fair enough! :P

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Re: German Changes

Ahmed' date='

Are you saying there's a bias towards english clubs (and players) on SM or are you saying that if he played for a BIG club he would've gone to 88/89?? :confused:

My arguement is this:

Where on the table would Bochum be (currently 11th) without Sestak's goals?

They have scored 25 goals in total, he personally has scored 8! That's almost 1/3rd of the teams total, add to that his 7 assists and he has played a hand in 15 of the 25 goals the team has scored in the 16 games so far this season.

Sestak's stats are class, he is averaging a goal every 2nd game and vertually the same with assists .... RESPECT I say.

If he was doing it in the EPL he's be 90+ I guarantee it! :eek::rolleyes::o

Herby[/quote']

Just look at for example Barca, Milan or Chelsea's squad.. Check the reatings.. Are there all realistic? And after that, check a smaller team's squad ratings.. Are there all realistic..? The answer will be no. This is where the problem lies..

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Re: German Changes

Just look at for example Barca' date=' Milan or Chelsea's squad.. Check the reatings.. Are there all realistic? And after that, check a smaller team's squad ratings.. Are there all realistic..? The answer will be no. This is where the problem lies..[/quote']

Whether you like it or not Mr HoW .... the BEST players go to the BIG clubs! That's a fact because they get paid better and they want to have success and win trophies ... Chelsea, Milan and Barca are 3 of the top 10 clubs in the world imho .... so that's where the answer to your problem lies ... ;):rolleyes:

Now cheer up and stop being so cynical! lol :D

Herby

p.s. Happy B'day for the other day mate! :)

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Re: German Changes

To be honest I don't see what people are getting excited about. Ratings are not done yet, and those that have been increased but havent gone up from 83 to 89 is hardly surprising. How far into the German season is it? Can someone really become 89 quality in one season, let alone half a season? Not in my mind. I must be missing something.

Am surprised at Hamit and Petric's changes. Jones I was hoping for more on, as with Mutzel, but am not really surprised with these two as they are both fairly new at this level.

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Re: German Changes

To be honest I don't see what people are getting excited about. Ratings are not done yet' date=' and those that have been increased but havent gone up from 83 to 89 is hardly surprising. How far into the German season is it? Can someone really become 89 quality in one season, let alone half a season? Not in my mind. I must be missing something.

Am surprised at Hamit and Petric's changes. Jones I was hoping for more on, as with Mutzel, but am not really surprised with these two as they are both fairly new at this level.[/quote']

Teb,

I disagree, Sestak was under-rated and under-valued at 83 imho.

Ivan Rakitic came from the Swiss league and was 85 and went to 88.

Sestak should've probably been 85 too and deserves to go to 88 imho. Look at his stats .... as good as anyone in the first 16 games of the season.

Also, I don't understand what your problem is with Hamit (Altintop is his surname btw - don't even get me started on that one! lol) and Petric?

What do you mean they are new at this level??? :confused:

Altintop, Hamit played for Schalke and Turkey before joining Bayern!!!

Petric represented Basel (where he was top goalscorer) and Croatia before joining Dortmund. I distinctly recall you posting about him when he was still rated 86, after he scored 4 goals in a game! ;)

Herby

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Re: German Changes

Just like Jermain Jones was under-rated. He should've gone to 88 too imho.

Is 82-88 too big a increase?? I think not if it's justified and warranted .... especially if it's due to an incorrect rating in the first instance!!! ;)

SESTAK - 83 --> 88

JONES - 82 --> 88

SIMUNEK - 81 --> 86

J. BOATENG 83 --> 86

Just my thoughts :D

Herby

p.s. Petric and Hamit I thought might've even gone to 91! :eek: But 90 is fair for the time being, esp Hamit. Petric I think was closer :P

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Re: German Changes

Definitely with Herby and thehebreb here.

Plus, based on what bestpay, insider, luke, and other scouters have described, it's all about a gradual increase, not a stark one. I wrote a really long argument for why Mario Gomez should be a 92, but everyone else claimed that the ratings aren't so stark up-and-down like that. A player has to earn a higher rating with consistency.

Now a point Mr. How and Herby made I completely agree with: Sestak is playing as good as Diego and others right now. However, based on what others have said, I think it's fair that Sestak is at an 87 (although I would have liked to see an 88) because it's such a small sampling of minutes.

I believe that we'll get to the German ratings one more time near the end of the Bundesliga season, so if Sestak continues to play how he is now, no doubt he'll rise to an 89 then.

Relax all :). By the way, being the homer for Stuttgart that I am, I'm bummed to see Gomez and Hitzlsperger not get a 92 while Demicheals for Bayern did :(. Hopefully their rating is coming later this week.

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Re: German Changes

Whether you like it or not Mr HoW .... the BEST players go to the BIG clubs! That's a fact because they get paid better and they want to have success and win trophies ... Chelsea' date=' Milan and Barca are 3 of the top 10 clubs in the world imho .... so that's where the answer to your problem lies ... ;):rolleyes:

Now cheer up and stop being so cynical! lol :D

Herby

p.s. Happy B'day for the other day mate! :)[/quote']

I understand Your statement, but big money or not, big club or not, they are overrated, thats all :D This means that the biggest clubs players and the big club players are not equalised. Of course a star has to got a better rating than an average player, but sometimes there are great players at smaller clubs (and yes, soon they'll move somwhere else) and those players should rise. Thats all :D

p.s.: thanks :)

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Re: German Changes

I understand Your statement' date=' but big money or not, big club or not, they are overrated, thats all :D This means that the biggest clubs players and the big club players are not equalised. Of course a star has to got a better rating than an average player, but sometimes there are great players at smaller clubs (and yes, soon they'll move somwhere else) and those players should rise. Thats all :D

p.s.: thanks :)[/quote']

Very true, Mr. How.

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Re: German Changes

Am surprised at Hamit and Petric's changes. Jones I was hoping for more on' date=' as with Mutzel, but am not really surprised with these two as they are both fairly new at this level.[/quote']

We all know that the changes hadnt finished yet.

Btw whats wrong with Hamit? He is fantastic at Bayern, he deserve at least the rating 90.

Okay, we dont have to make decisions by a few matches, but correct me if I'm wrong but this rating changes thing is all about this, doesnt it? Allways changing ratings in several areas following the real life performance. If a player (for example Sestak) playing well for 10 matches, should be raised, right? Because he is in good form or etc, but better than he was, so the rating system should follow this. And this is vica versa. If someone playing worse or even not playing, should be decreased. Of course have to make difference between injured players and simply unused players.

Kris: Micho has to be at least 92, he is better than rating 91, now he is in very good form.

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Re: German Changes

Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelaxxxxxxxxxxxxx!!!! :D

Early days but the one that surprised me the most was Sestak.

When Danny W. first mentioned the player I agreed that he would rise and predicted most probably an increase from 83 to 86' date=' at very best an 87. However the Slovak international (16 A-caps) has been on fire for Bochum recently and can't help scoring or assisting. His season tally now stands at 8 goals and 7 assists!! :eek: He did increase to 87 yesterday, however that still seems low when you compare that his stats are better than those of Rakitic (who went to 88) and on par with Bremen's Diego (who is 93 and could go to 94).

Based on that comparison, I think he [b']MUST[/b] go to 88 as his form atm is sublime. ;)

Well done Danny mate, that was a great early season call!

Was pleased to see Hajnal go to 88, though he was even a chance at 89 based on his 5 goals and 6 assists so far this season.

Just for interests sake, here are some stats (to keep things in perspective and FAIR!) :)

RANK/SURNAME/COMBINED POINTS/GOALS (1 POINT)/ASSISTS (1 POINT)

1 Klose Bayern München 15 9 6 SM Rating 94

Sestak VfL Bochum 15 8 7 SM Rating 87 (prev 83) :rolleyes:

Diego Werder Bremen 15 8 7 SM Rating 93

4 Toni Bayern München 13 9 4 SM Rating 94

5 van der Vaart Hamburger SV 11 9 2 SM Rating 93

Hajnal Karlsruher SC 11 5 6 SM Rating 88 (prev 86)

7 Petric Borussia Dortmund 10 8 2 SM Rating 90 (prev 89)

Hanke Hannover 96 10 8 2 SM Rating 89 (prev 88)

Gekas Bayer Leverkusen 10 8 2 SM Rating 91

Pantelic Hertha BSC 10 7 3 SM Rating 90

Sanogo Werder Bremen 10 7 3 SM Rating 89 (prev 88)

Huszti Hannover 96 10 6 4 SM Rating 89

13 Hugo Almeida Werder Bremen 9 7 2 SM Rating 89 (prev 87)

Rosenberg Werder Bremen 9 4 5 SM Rating 88

Marcelinho VfL Wolfsburg 9 2 7 SM Rating 91

16 Olic Hamburger SV 8 6 2

Kießling Bayer Leverkusen 8 4 4

18 Gomez VfB Stuttgart 7 7 0

Wichniarek Arminia Bielefeld 7 6 1

Kuranyi FC Schalke 04 7 6 1

Amanatidis Eintracht Frankfurt 7 5 2

Misimovic 1. FC Nürnberg 7 5 2

Mieciel VfL Bochum 7 4 3

Barbarez Bayer Leverkusen 7 4 3

Ribery Bayern München 7 4 3

I just added the SM Rating of the top 15, but it's easy to see that based on stats alone, Sestk and Hajnal are still the odd ones out .... both could (and perhaps should have gone to 89) - BIG increases I know but both represent and play for their respective countries (Slovakia and Hungary) and their club performances have been outstanding so far this season. Surrounded by 90+ players ar BIGGER (and arguably better clubs).

Also disappointed that Petric only went to 90, I think he deserved a 91 but perhaps he'll get there come season's end! :o

This is a classic example of what I have been talking about recently where SM conservatively increase the rating of a player.

I actually predicted that Sestak would rise to an 87 in my forecasts but wouldn't object right now if SM had uprated him to an 89. The problem is where a player is inexperienced at the top level (N.B. Sestak only has 16 league appearances outside Slovakia) it seems to take time for him to be uprated (Ezequiel Garay, Micah Richards, Alvaro Arbeloa and Alexandre Pato are other examples).

That's why I predict my forecasts with SM's conservative ratings policy in mind. I predict with confidence that if Sestak continues to perform at this level then he'll increase to 89 next time around, you'll have to wait about 4 months for that though.

I was very pleased with the increase of Jermaine Jones 82-87 (I forecast 85). Jones only played 4 games in 06/07 for Eintracht so an increase of 5 levels for just 14 of 16 appearances for Schalke this season surprised me (although a number of other forumers called it!). I honestly thought SM would increase him to 85/86 this time around and maybe 87/88 next time.

I was also pleasantly surprised with the increase of Luis ANDRÉ LIMA, who increased from 80 to 85 (I forecast 83). He's played 544 minutes and scored 1 goal for Hertha Berlin (12th), so not too special for a striker. I think what gave him the rise of 5 was his sensational form at Botafogo before he left Brazil, where he'd scored 12 goals in 17 games. His rating didn't increase the last time Brazil was re-rated as he'd already left for Germany, so his rating is two-fold I think - part his Brazilian performances and part for playing in the Bundesliga.

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Re: German Changes

We all know that the changes hadnt finished yet.

Btw whats wrong with Hamit? He is fantastic at Bayern' date=' he deserve at least the rating 90.

Okay, we dont have to make decisions by a few matches, but correct me if I'm wrong but this rating changes thing is all about this, doesnt it? Allways changing ratings in several areas following the real life performance. If a player (for example Sestak) playing well for 10 matches, should be raised, right? Because he is in good form or etc, but better than he was, so the rating system should follow this. And this is vica versa. If someone playing worse or even not playing, should be decreased. Of course have to make difference between injured players and simply unused players.

Kris: Micho has to be at least 92, he is better than rating 91, now he is in very good form.[/quote']

I just re-read Teb's post ... all he says is that he is surprised by Hamit and Petric's change .... maybe he was expecting them to be higher too! :eek::rolleyes:

I think I misread his post and thought when he said 'both are fairly new at that level' he was talking about the above-mentioned players when he was in fact referring to Jones and Muntzel. :P:o

I'm sure Teb won't let it slide by ... hehe

Herby

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Re: German Changes

This is a classic example of what I have been talking about recently where SM conservatively increase the rating of a player.

I actually predicted that Sestak would rise to an 87 in my forecasts but wouldn't object right now if SM had uprated him to an 89.

I predict with confidence that if Sestak continues to perform at this level then he'll increase to 89 next time around' date=' you'll have to wait about 4 months for that though.[/quote']

Bingo. That's what I was saying before: Bestpay/insider/luke convinced me that it's a gradual process, so since we see the German changes again 1 more time before the end of the Bundesliga season, if Sestak continues to plays the way he is now, he'll get an 89.

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