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-||Eredivisie Ratings-By Kun,BRNL and Jor||-

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Re: -||Eredivisie Ratings-By Kun,BRNL and Jor||-

Douglas moved to Holland when he was 19' date=' is that really so different to moving when 12?

And I'm fully aware Suriname is a former Dutch colony, however, it's still rather hypocritical. You cannot possibly know how Dutch Douglas feels. Look at Eduardo for Croatia, he was born in Brazil and raised in Brazil but he was given proper footballing education in Croatia and has thanked them by being an incredibly loyal player who gives his all every game for them.

However, there is a rather large list of players born in Suriname who would instead represent Holland. Former colony or not, it's pretty much the same thing. These players thought they were too good for Suriname so played for Holland.

Anyway - I'm Irish, I know what it's like to have players born abroad playing for your country and there are English born players who've never even been to Ireland who often perform better for us than Irish born players.

If anything, you're the racist for refusing to have foreigners play for your country[/quote']

19 and 12 is a huge difference if you ask me.

Youre not Dutch so you can't really understand the dynamics we have with Suriname. That said I do feel that if a player lived his whole live in Suriname and decides on his 17th birthday that he wants to play for the Dutch NT.. I'd rather not have that.

If a person comes to The Netherlands at a young age, no matter where he's from.. he can apply for citizenship and play for the Dutch NT. But if a person comes at the age of 15/16+ and comes here to play football and then wants to become a dutch, I would prefer that person not to be in the NT. . as I said in my previous post. If said person is given the Dutch nationality I SHOULD consider him Dutch, but I don't.

I also don't consider Ismail Aissati, Mounir El Hamdaoui, you name them.. to be Moroccan. I consider them Dutch. I don't consider KP Boateng to be Ghanaian, I consider him a German.

What I think and what I feel can't be made in to official rules because its to abstract and it's racist.

Like I said. Even if Messi wanted a Dutch citizenship.. he can have it. BUT I'd rather not have him play for our NT, because I won't consider him Dutch.

Douglas has said he feels more Brazilian that Dutch. He said that he'd root for Brazil before The Netherlands. And I can respect that completely as he is a Brazilian. So therefor I'd prefer not to have him in our NT, no matter how good he is. He can have the Dutch nationality, no problem.

I see what you mean regarding Suriname but again it's a bit different because of the dynamics. But I hope that good players born in Suriname and have lived in Suriname all their lives.. choose for the Suriname NT. Again, if they come her around age 3 .. what a lot of Surinamese do, I consider them Dutch.

Just for the record. I'm not a right winged.. I'm pretty left when it comes to politics. Also I'm bi-racial.

What I'm saying has to do with playing for YOUR country with PRIDE. If I had moved to the US when I was 17 and applied for citizenship and would've gotten it. I would not feel American.

If I would have come to the US when I was say 8 or 12 I'd feel much more American because I would have grown up in the States for a larger part of my life.

It all has to do with PASSION for the country you love.

You get my point?

And if the foreigner felt one with your country?

If you read .. you'll find your answer.

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Re: -||Eredivisie Ratings-By Kun,BRNL and Jor||-

BarryBatshoofd, let me tell you something.Thiago Alcantara was born in Italy, his father is former Brazilian World Cup winner Mazinho, and he plays for Spain. Until 2005, he was playing for Flamengo (brazilian club), where he started playing football (1995-1996)

and played for six years (2001-2005).

Who'll say that he doesn't feel spanish?

In my opinion, and for other here in Brazil, CBF - Brazilian Football Confederation - made a huge mistake not calling him for the NT (even sub-17, sub-20 etc) for all these years. The kid have class, could be starter for Brazil NT nowadays, but no, his playing for Spain.

My point is that you can't judge if the play "feel Dutch", because it's very relative. I tend to agree with you, I can't ignore that Thiago IS brazilian, but he made a choice (CBF kind of ignore him for all those years, now look at him). Who in Spain will questionate him as player for their NT??

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Re: -||Eredivisie Ratings-By Kun,BRNL and Jor||-

I would get your point if you knew Douglas personally. You can't know how passionate he feels for Holland and I've listed examples of players playing remarkably well for a country they weren't born in. Kevin Kilbane, born in England, is one of Ireland's most capped players and worked his socks off in every single one of those games.

The fact that you think because someone is foreign, they dont feel passionate about their current country is incredibly narrow-sighted, Douglas moved to Holland at a very young age. 19 seems old but it isnt, could you have moved to a completely different country at 19, away from your family with people who dont speak the same language? He's spent 4 years in Holland, arguably the most important years of his life as he matures, marries and becomes a father. It's entirely plausible he cares greatly for Holland.

Anyway - this is all a pointless argument. The man who is the best judge of whether Douglas cares or not, besides Douglas himself, is Bert van Marwijk who is apparently very welcoming of Douglas declaring for Holland

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Re: -||Eredivisie Ratings-By Kun,BRNL and Jor||-

BarryBatshoofd' date=' let me tell you something.Thiago Alcantara was born in Italy, his father is former Brazilian World Cup winner Mazinho, and he plays for [b'] Spain[/b]. Until 2005, he was playing for Flamengo (brazilian club), where he started playing football (1995-1996)

and played for six years (2001-2005).

Who'll say that he doesn't feel spanish?

In my opinion, and for other here in Brazil, CBF - Brazilian Football Confederation - made a huge mistake not calling him for the NT (even sub-17, sub-20 etc) for all these years. The kid have class, could be starter for Brazil NT nowadays, but no, his playing for Spain.

My point is that you can't judge if the play "feel Dutch", because it's very relative. I tend to agree with you, I can't ignore that Thiago IS brazilian, but he made a choice (CBF kind of ignore him for all those years, now look at him). Who in Spain will questionate him as player for their NT??

I agree. Thiago has Brazilian heritage and has lived in the country. He grew up in Spain. So imo he could play for both. But if he'd play for Italy, I would find that strange. He was birthed their yes but never really lived their.

Example: A friend of mine, white as snow, was born in Nigeria. Never lived there, no relation with the country other than that it's his birthplace. Grew up in The Netherlands, has lived his whole live here and doesn't speak the language spoken in Nigeria. He could however get the Nigerian citizenship very easy and play for Nigeria. I personally would not consider him a Nigerian, even if he would have the Nigerian passport.

What I'm saying is. If someone has lived in a certain country all his life, moves to a different country and wants to represent that country he does not have the same relationship/passion for that country as someone who lived here all their live. The sketchy part in what I'm saying is.. the age factor. Howie considers 19 young in this aspect, I don't.

Yes this is from my POV, I can not say how that person feels. But if you look objective, that would be the outcome.

I would get your point if you knew Douglas personally. You can't know how passionate he feels for Holland

He was sad Brazil lost and preferred Brazil advanced against The Netherlands but was happy for the Dutch. This wont change when he has a Dutch passport. His passion is with Brazil.

This is enough for me:

[ He said this in an interview before or after the WC last year ]

Douglas has said he feels more Brazilian than Dutch. He said that he'd root for Brazil before The Netherlands. And I can respect that completely as he is a Brazilian.

If you moved to the US at age 19. Could you feel as much an American as a where ever you're from/grew up/lived all your life in 4 years' date=' realistically?

I'm not talking about the Thiago's and the De Guzman's. I'm talking about the Aissati's, KP Boateng's, Matips etc.

[b']Playing football for a country you did not grow up in, but your decision was made due to financial reasons or you could not get in to your home country's NT.[/b]

My point: Changing your citizenship because you can't get in to your home country's NT for what ever reasons or changing it to gain financially, does NOT 'feel' right and if it was 'my' NT, I would prefer that person not in 'my' NT even if it was Messi. Genuine passion should be the key, but that's hard to measure for outsiders.

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Re: -||Eredivisie Ratings-By Kun,BRNL and Jor||-

No he won't get 89' date=' he's not been that good for PSV yet but based on his minutes and how PSV perform he should sure get 88.[/quote']

Thanks!!!!

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Re: -||Eredivisie Ratings-By Kun,BRNL and Jor||-

Any Utrecht predictions mainly the Australian Internationals:

Tommy Oar (80) Goal of the tournament (U20 WC) starting a few games

Michael Zullo (78) Starting LB in NT last 5 games including WC Qualifiers

Adam Sarota (78) capped twice since last review

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Re: -||Eredivisie Ratings-By Kun,BRNL and Jor||-

Today 08:55 PM

vaivaipaolino Riferimento: -||Eredivisie Ratings-By Kun,BRNL and Jor||-

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

what about alex schalk(nac breda)?

Heracles and Vitesse are already reviewed so check back in this thread.

Schalk should get somewhere around +5.

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Re: -||Eredivisie Ratings-By Kun,BRNL and Jor||-

Have the teams here been updated since march?

If so what page are they on?

If not can someone do an update please?

Thanks:D

We've done them until Heracles I believe (according to the rankings few weeks ago), should start a few pages back, think somewhere from 5-10 pages back they'll be.

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Re: Riferimento: -||Eredivisie Ratings-By Kun,BRNL and Jor||-

Who is better' date=' in your opinion, between Ted Van de pavert and Tomas Kalas??[/quote']

At the moment I prefer van der pavert but Kalas is a Chelsea player and will be much, much better long term :o

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Re: -||Eredivisie Ratings-By Kun,BRNL and Jor||-

I have Arnaud Sutchuin from Roda in some of my teams,

i think you haven´t looked at Roda yet.

Will he rise ? And is he a long term prospect or should i sell him ?

Thanks for your help.

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Re: -||Eredivisie Ratings-By Kun,BRNL and Jor||-

Roda haven't had a great season so far and Sutchuin is already pretty highly rated so tbh, I can't see a rise. Maybe slight chance of hitting 84.

He's a good player, very versatile. Whether he can perform at a bigger club, I'm not sure but he's a decent player to have in your team

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Re: Riferimento: -||Eredivisie Ratings-By Kun,BRNL and Jor||-

At the moment I prefer van der pavert but Kalas is a Chelsea player and will be much' date=' much better long term :o[/quote']

chelsea always buy alot of yuong players and waste their talent

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Re: -||Eredivisie Ratings-By Kun,BRNL and Jor||-

that's a bit harsh, I dont think Kalas is renowned for buying young players. Seems like a strange thing for an 18 year old Czech defender to do. Unless he uses them to clean his house or something.

And as for CHELSEA ruining young players, which I presume you mean, Vilas-Boas has a decent record of working with youth and the signings of players like Davila, Lukaku, Courtois, Kalas, etc. suggest Chelsea have realised that they need to bring through more youth. Anyway, Vitesse are their "feeder" team so if Kalas doesnt get first team chances at Chelsea, he'll get them at Vitesse which did Rajkovic a lot of good (Rajkovic would be playing for Chelsa this season if not for work permit problems)

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Re: -||Eredivisie Ratings-By Kun,BRNL and Jor||-

that's a bit harsh' date=' I dont think Kalas is renowned for buying young players. Seems like a strange thing for an 18 year old Czech defender to do. Unless he uses them to clean his house or something.

And as for CHELSEA ruining young players, which I presume you mean, Vilas-Boas has a decent record of working with youth and the signings of players like Davila, Lukaku, Courtois, Kalas, etc. suggest Chelsea have realised that they need to bring through more youth. Anyway, Vitesse are their "feeder" team so if Kalas doesnt get first team chances at Chelsea, he'll get them at Vitesse which did Rajkovic a lot of good (Rajkovic would be playing for Chelsa this season if not for work permit problems)[/quote']

Kalas does Howie, he has a basement full, saw it on television the other day! :o

Anyways I agree with you.

Adam MAHER

Giorgi CHANTURIA

Fernando CANESIN MATOS

Rocha RUDY

Grégory MERTENS

AZ

Vitesse

Anderlecht

Cercle Brugge

Cercle Brugge

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Re: -||Eredivisie Ratings-By Kun,BRNL and Jor||-

We should get working on the lower teams Brood :P

if you want to pick what remaining ones you want, i'll do the rest

except RKC because I've no idea how to rate them. Do you rate them highly because they're not doing that bad, or low because they'll probably be lower down by the end of the season and just came up, or high because they actually have some decent players, or low because they're RKC

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