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Hyina

Counter formations

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Re: Counter formations

can i suggest something' date=' i know the current first post took a lot of work, and im stuck and i find myself coming to it.

very good job :)

i would say though maybe suggesting the tactics to use for it, that would make this guide the true ultimate, as the formations are only a part of tactics !

i found short and fast passing works well in a 3-5-2.

im playing a 4-2-3-1 next, i have an all star team.

rooney, eto, suarez

ribery, ronaldo, fletcher, fabregas, hamsik, valencia. (ozil the fool is suspended)

cole, evra, ramos, vidic, hummels, terry in defence.

3-2-2-1 maybe, but i dont know what settings to use...

[url']http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu308/LINKINPARKinpieces/Untitled-7.jpg[/url]

thats the link to his team !

if it works, ill have to give you credit !

Tbh, I would use a 4-5-1 for countering a 4-2-3-1, a defensive arrow on one of your DM/CM, forward arrows on your wingers and your AM, works everytime for me ;)

Hopefully you see this before your next game :rolleyes:

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Re: Counter formations

Tbh' date=' I would use a 4-5-1 for countering a 4-2-3-1, a defensive arrow on one of your DM/CM, forward arrows on your wingers and your AM, works everytime for me ;)

Hopefully you see this before your next game :rolleyes:[/quote']

on your guide it says 3-2-2-1 ?

or is this an ammendment. im going to have a look myself anyway, but thanks for the advice :)

4-5-1 i think:

normal mentality, attacking mixed style.

passing mixed, tempo normal.

(tempted to use short and fast due to possesion in midfield though?)

target man eto'o upfront.

the only problem with a 4-5-1 is rooney has never played well for me in an AM position.....but i may give it a go :)

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Re: Counter formations

on your guide it says 3-2-2-1 ?

or is this an ammendment. im going to have a look myself anyway' date=' but thanks for the advice :)

4-5-1 i think:

normal mentality, attacking mixed style.

passing mixed, tempo normal.

(tempted to use short and fast due to possesion in midfield though?)

target man eto'o upfront.

the only problem with a 4-5-1 is rooney has never played well for me in an AM position.....but i may give it a go :)[/quote']

I editted it, because I just realised if you play 3-2-2-2-1 against 4-2-3-1 then you lose the midfield because you have a large space between you 2 DMs and 2 AMs, this space would be occupied by you opponent's 3 AM/wingers so your 2DMs and 3 CBs will be hard pressed, while their 2 DMS will shut down any attack by your 2 AMs...

I am rambling a bit :rolleyes: in essence I think a 4-5-1 would be good because you have 3 CM/DM/AM which take care of the opponent's AMs. Your wingers will bombard down the wings and attack their fullbacks, and if your wingers' ratings are higher than their fullbacks then it will be raining goals for you :) I reckon you will have more possession and more shots on goal too. Just don't forget to add a defensive arrow on one of your DMs and forward arrows of you AM and wingers. If you play short passing, then I also recommend a backward arrow on you Eto'o like how Messi play at Barce ;)

Hope this helps :)

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Re: Counter formations

I editted it' date=' because I just realised if you play 3-2-2-2-1 against 4-2-3-1 then you lose the midfield because you have a large space between you 2 DMs and 2 AMs, this space would be occupied by you opponent's 3 AM/wingers so your 2DMs and 3 CBs will be hard pressed, while their 2 DMS will shut down any attack by your 2 AMs...

I am rambling a bit :rolleyes: in essence I think a 4-5-1 would be good because you have 3 CM/DM/AM which take care of the opponent's AMs. Your wingers will bombard down the wings and attack their fullbacks, and if your wingers' ratings are higher than their fullbacks then it will be raining goals for you :) I reckon you will have more possession and more shots on goal too. Just don't forget to add a defensive arrow on one of your DMs and forward arrows of you AM and wingers. If you play short passing, then I also recommend a backward arrow on you Eto'o like how Messi play at Barce ;)

Hope this helps :)[/quote']

i initially thought that, its a good formation ( 3-2-2-2-1 ) but what concerned by is the huge gap in central attack. i dont want a forward arrow on the 2 dm/cm's because that leaves gaps, a backward arrow on my forward was the other option but i have never tried that before....

i dont like the 4-3-2-1 for the same reason. little width but nobody in the centre.

thanks for the advice.

i think 4-5-1 defensive is too short of options upfront, and will just lead to a inability to score..

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Re: Counter formations

i disagree with the 3-5-2 counters 4-1-3-2' date=' i have lost four consecutive games against liverpool starting with 3-5-2 first half losing 2-0 at half time thn playing like for like 2nd half and losing 3-2. Both sides are equally matched so i strongly disagree with that[/quote']

I agree with this. I frequently lost with far superior teams when I used 3-5-2 vs 4-1-3-2. I have however since changing to 4-2-3-1 in these games an 100% success record against this formation (Probably 5/6 games)

Attacking

Down both flanks

short passing

fast tempo

closing down all over

With: target man, tight marking, counter attack also ticked.

The two DMs help with the advanced midfielders I would assume.

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Re: Counter formations

I agree with this. I frequently lost with far superior teams when I used 3-5-2 vs 4-1-3-2. I have however since changing to 4-2-3-1 in these games an 100% success record against this formation (Probably 5/6 games' date=' versus )

Attacking

Down both flanks

short passing

fast tempo

closing down all over

With: target man, tight marking, counter attack also ticked.

The two DMs help with the advanced midfielders I would assume.[/quote']

Ok, thanks for your contribution, I will edit my original post :)

(but personally, I've been very successful against a 4-1-3-2 using 3-5-2 :confused:)

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Re: Counter formations

Ok' date=' editted, though I already had 4-4-2 and 4-3-2-1 down. I added 4-2-3-1 anyway :)[/quote']

No worries just my two cents. Obviously people with have success with different formations and some may fail where others succeed, it's all a bit of generalisation. So long as people don't give you grief when it may fail and don't treat it as gospel it's all good :)

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Re: Counter formations

Ever considered that some formations may work well at home versus others but not away from home? ;)

I'm not convinced by this, IMO home and away don't really make a difference in SM - infact, I win more games away and draw and lose more at home

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Re: Counter formations

I'm not convinced by this' date=' IMO home and away don't really make a difference in SM - infact, I win more games away and draw and lose more at home[/quote']

And? Is this whole thread based on your opinion or on the history of results? If so, how many results? Did 3-4-3 play 4-3-1-2 once, 10, or 100 times? :rolleyes:

The question was getting at things like do you get the same number of wins playing 3-4-3 away from home against 4-3-1-2 as you did when you used 3-4-3 at home vs. 4-3-1-2? In fact yeah, that's exactly the question: to come up with the idea that 3-4-3 counters 4-3-1-2, how many times did 3-4-3 win away from home vs. 4-3-1-2, and how many times did it win at home versus 4-3-1-2?

And beyond that, what evidence do you have to say that home and away don't really make a difference in SM, other than your opinion? I'm not saying you're wrong, just that you haven't actually shown anything to suggest that you are right...

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Re: Counter formations

And? Is this whole thread based on your opinion or on the history of results? If so' date=' how many results? Did 3-4-3 play 4-3-1-2 once, 10, or 100 times? :rolleyes:

The question was getting at things like do you get the same number of wins playing 3-4-3 away from home against 4-3-1-2 as you did when you used 3-4-3 at home vs. 4-3-1-2? In fact yeah, that's exactly the question: to come up with the idea that 3-4-3 counters 4-3-1-2, how many times did 3-4-3 win away from home vs. 4-3-1-2, and how many times did it win at home versus 4-3-1-2?

And beyond that, what evidence do you have to say that home and away don't really make a difference in SM, other than your opinion? I'm not saying you're wrong, just that you haven't actually shown anything to suggest that you are right...[/quote']

What I said about Home/Away games wasn't intended to link with this thread, only from you point about differences between home/away games.

This thread is just my personal opinions about which formations counter which, there hasn't been any tests to this, that's why I said in my post: 'If you use this guide and lose a game, please post it here so I can know and maybe change my post'. I haven't tried all formations or played against all formations, they are what I think are counter formations.

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Re: Counter formations

I'm not convinced by this' date=' IMO home and away don't really make a difference in SM - infact, I win more games away and draw and lose more at home[/quote']

firstly, i dont think you should post home and away formations.

the best formation is the one you put out whether that is home or away, the formation dont change for me.

here is where individual changes come into play:

you can do everything for every team.

if your a coventry playing my man united team then obviously you may go more defensive...

whereas my man united team will look to win 80% of games to get the title again and will not be happy to sit back. ill attack more even if ti is a bigger risk.

i have too, small teams are happywith a draw i rarely am / cant afford to be.

that said last season i was unbeaten at home, and lost a fair few away.

i think the fact that occured showed home and away makes a huge difference to my team anyway.

something like played 18 at home, won 14, drew 4.

away i won about 9/10, drew twice lost 6 times.

big, big difference.

if i have a game against a very good side away from home i dont change formation, but i do select normal or defensive.

away from home im happy to draw against big teams.

at home i may push forward a bit.

so to summarise: formation stays the same, tactics change.

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Re: Counter formations

firstly' date=' i dont think you should post home and away formations.

the best formation is the one you put out whether that is home or away, the formation dont change for me.

here is where individual changes come into play:

you can do everything for every team.

if your a coventry playing my man united team then obviously you may go more defensive...

whereas my man united team will look to win 80% of games to get the title again and will not be happy to sit back. ill attack more even if ti is a bigger risk.

i have too, small teams are happywith a draw i rarely am / cant afford to be.

that said last season i was unbeaten at home, and lost a fair few away.

i think the fact that occured showed home and away makes a huge difference to my team anyway.

something like played 18 at home, won 14, drew 4.

away i won about 9/10, drew twice lost 6 times.

big, big difference.

if i have a game against a very good side away from home i dont change formation, but i do select normal or defensive.

away from home im happy to draw against big teams.

at home i may push forward a bit.

so to summarise: formation stays the same, tactics change.[/quote']

I never really change formations (only if I scout the next opponent's formations then counter it), just the tactics.

Don't worry, I won't complicate this thread up - I made this because I wanted to make it easier for people to win games! :) (or hopefully anyway :o)

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Re: Counter formations

This thread is just my personal opinions about which formations counter which' date=' there hasn't been any tests to this, that's why I said in my post: 'If you use this guide and lose a game, please post it here so I can know and maybe change my post'. I haven't tried all formations or played against all formations, they are what I think are counter formations.[/quote']

Well said mate-its a work in progress with not enough empirical data to give a 100% solution. Really hope people start to treat it as such.

firstly' date=' i dont think you should post home and away formations.

so to summarise: formation stays the same, tactics change.[/quote']

Agreed.

Don't worry' date=' I won't complicate this thread up - I made this because I wanted to make it easier for people to win games! :) (or hopefully anyway :o)[/quote']

Please don't -the beauty about it is that its simplicity and allows the manager to actually manage his side..

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Re: Counter formations

Wrong place to post I know I'm sorry but I'm advertising GW

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Re: Respuesta: Counter formations

Hi Hyina' date=' to counter 3-5-2, use 4-3-3 wingers? I thought that was the opposite, to counter 4-3-3 wingers, use 3-5-2.[/quote']

4-3-3 wingers will thrash a 3-5-2, your defensive 3 mids take care of the midfield, while your front 3, especially the 2 wide players cause havoc in your opponent's half.

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Respuesta: Re: Respuesta: Counter formations

4-3-3 wingers will thrash a 3-5-2' date=' your defensive 3 mids take care of the midfield, while your front 3, especially the 2 wide players cause havoc in your opponent's half.[/quote']

Umm... ok ok. Then, to beat a 4-3-3 wingers should I use a 4-4-2 diamond?

This night I play against a manager who uses 4-3-3 wingers but I usually play with 3-5-2 (1st in first division of a world league) and my team is better. Use 4-4-2 diamond or keep 3-5-2?

Thanks you very much.

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Re: Respuesta: Re: Respuesta: Counter formations

Umm... ok ok. Then' date=' to beat a 4-3-3 wingers should I use a 4-4-2 diamond?

This night I play against a manager who uses 4-3-3 wingers but I usually play with 3-5-2 (1st in first division of a world league) and my team is better. Use 4-4-2 diamond or keep 3-5-2?

Thanks you very much.[/quote']

Yes I would use 4-4-2 diamond against a 4-3-3 wingers :)

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