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TheDuffman

English Premiership Rating Predictions 2011/2012

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Re: English Premiership Rating Predictions 2011/2012

Just found out they've continued to do the ratings today. Made £3m profit from Frei and McClean so far. Surely that will increase in the next EPL changes. No suprise Reina dropped. Gerrard could've stayed but with Liverpool's poor position, there was always a bigger chance of him dropping.

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Re: English Premiership Rating Predictions 2011/2012

I understand the sentiment that stats should be the sole basis of a rating but to call assist stats worthless is absurd. The assister in most cases has provided the pass which created the goal scoring opportunity' date=' if the pass is bad, the cross is bad, there is no goal scoring opportunity.[/quote']

I understand your point, but it is an overly simplistic way of looking at things. "The Assist" is a relatively recent statistic (ie last 20 years or so) - but unlike in American sports where the bare numbers are normally important (think yards gained in NFL or your batting average in baseball) there can be multiple factors behind a goal. To use your example, if the pass before the cross is bad, there is no cross therefore no goal. And that's still overlooking other issues such as off the ball runs to remove defenders from the game etc...

There's a huge qualitative difference between assists. Just by example in the Newcastle - Bolton game at the weekend for Newcastle's two goals. For the first goal Ben Arfa got a pass in his own half facing his own penalty area then ran the length of the pitch to score. That goes down as an assist. By contrast when Cisse scored off a cross that too is an assist.

Just my 2p worth - of course you're entitled to your opinion too mate.

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Re: English Premiership Rating Predictions 2011/2012

I understand your point' date=' but it is an overly simplistic way of looking at things. "The Assist" is a relatively recent statistic (ie last 20 years or so) - but unlike in American sports where the bare numbers are normally important (think yards gained in NFL or your batting average in baseball) there can be multiple factors behind a goal. To use your example, if the pass before the cross is bad, there is no cross therefore no goal. And that's still overlooking other issues such as off the ball runs to remove defenders from the game etc...

There's a huge qualitative difference between assists. Just by example in the Newcastle - Bolton game at the weekend for Newcastle's two goals. For the first goal Ben Arfa got a pass in his own half facing his own penalty area then ran the length of the pitch to score. That goes down as an assist. By contrast when Cisse scored off a cross that too is an assist.

Just my 2p worth - of course you're entitled to your opinion too mate.[/quote']

I understand what your saying but put simply without that pass the opportunity would not be there.

I appreciate your example of Ben Arfas goal although i feel thats an example which is extreme, because how many goals are scored like that ? But by the same token, goals can bounce of the back of a players head, a tap in, penalties etc, they go down as a goal but take no where near as much skill as Ben Arfas goal against Bolton for example.

Ofcourse assist stats dont take into consideration off the ball runs, how difficult the pass was etc, but like i said, nor do goal stats. Thats why you shouldnt base your whole opinion on stats, however that being said, to disregard them completely will reduce the validity / accuracy of an opinion or this case, a rating.

:)

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Re: English Premiership Rating Predictions 2011/2012

I understand what your saying but put simply without that pass the opportunity would not be there.

I appreciate your example of Ben Arfas goal although i feel thats an example which is extreme' date=' because how many goals are scored like that ? But by the same token, goals can bounce of the back of a players head, a tap in, penalties etc, they go down as a goal but take no where near as much skill as Ben Arfas goal against Bolton for example.

Ofcourse assist stats dont take into consideration off the ball runs, how difficult the pass was etc, but like i said, nor do goal stats. Thats why you shouldnt base your whole opinion on stats, however that being said, to disregard them completely will reduce the validity / accuracy of an opinion or this case, a rating.

:)[/quote']

No one is disregarding them outright but its true that good performances are more important then statistics. YES statistics contribute (especially with forwards) but they are not the only determining factor in someones rating. One case i remember was Arshavin last season (im an Arsenal fan) who was top of the assist charts and played more games then any other Arsenal player before the end of the year....BUT he went down because he was playing awful. Anyway, to go off on a further tangent, with players who are rated 88 (like dembele was) sm are more lenient anyway and give rises more generously- hence he went to 89 because of good performances for Fulham this season so far.

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Re: English Premiership Rating Predictions 2011/2012

assist stats are worthless IMO:
No one is disregarding them outright but its true that good performances are more important then statistics. YES statistics contribute (especially with forwards) but they are not the only determining factor in someones rating. One case i remember was Arshavin last season (im an Arsenal fan) who was top of the assist charts and played more games then any other Arsenal player before the end of the year....BUT he went down because he was playing awful. Anyway' date=' to go off on a further tangent, with players who are rated 88 (like dembele was) sm are more lenient anyway and give rises more generously- hence he went to 89 because of good performances for Fulham this season so far.[/quote']

I was discussing the above statement.

Im aware of the importance performance, I was merely debating the point that assist stats are worthless.

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Re: English Premiership Rating Predictions 2011/2012

Somebody tell me atleast one of

Walcott

Song

Ramires

Will ateast get a cheeky +1 rating? :D

Walcott no chance..Song 50%,Ramires 50%.

I hope all will drop because u got them in 7046.:D

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Re: English Premiership Rating Predictions 2011/2012

Somebody tell me atleast one of

Walcott

Song

Ramires

Will ateast get a cheeky +1 rating? :D

I think all have a fair chance of getting plus one although Chelsea's league struggles won't help Ramires.

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Re: English Premiership Rating Predictions 2011/2012

No one is disregarding them outright but its true that good performances are more important then statistics. YES statistics contribute (especially with forwards) but they are not the only determining factor in someones rating. One case i remember was Arshavin last season (im an Arsenal fan) who was top of the assist charts and played more games then any other Arsenal player before the end of the year....BUT he went down because he was playing awful. Anyway' date=' to go off on a further tangent, with players who are rated 88 (like dembele was) sm are more lenient anyway and give rises more generously- hence he went to 89 because of good performances for Fulham this season so far.[/quote']

Stats if used correctly are how we can measure good performances. Sadly, the media considers us fans too stupid to understand them.

Thinking about it carefully, I would think that these would be more important that assists and clean sheets. I think they would be as useful to managers as goals scored.

Chances created

Pass completion

Success of your team when they play vs don't play

possessions won per game

possessions lost per game

number of passes per game

effect on these stats you have on the players around you

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Re: English Premiership Rating Predictions 2011/2012

What do you think about Petrovic from Blckburn? Should I sell him? Blackburn is in poor position and Petrovic is not getting full time...

Sell him for sure. I dont think he can do good with a club like Blackburn personally who have been poor for the last two seasons. He is rated 86' date=' I dont think he will get any higher there. [/b']

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Re: English Premiership Rating Predictions 2011/2012

Somebody tell me atleast one of

Walcott

Song

Ramires

Will ateast get a cheeky +1 rating? :D

I sure hope so as i too have them three players. To be honest i watch Arsenal every game and Song simply has to get a +1, hes been nothing short of inspirational and has provided many goals in a team that was struggling for the first few months of the season. Id say Ramires will definitely stay in THIS review but should go up in the next one, especially given Chelsea's Champions League run. As for Walcott, again, 50/50 but considering players such as Bale who are 91 id personally say Theo should go up, but obviously im slightly biased in this case.

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Re: English Premiership Rating Predictions 2011/2012

I hate the fact that my work block the Soccer Manager site, but not the forum.... I have to wait until 7pm when I get home to find out who's risen/dropped :(

Although if Guidetti has risen to 85 then I'm a happy man!

-1 for Cech looked pretty harsh

Hhhmmmmm I dunno. Don't get me wrong, excellent keeper, but he's not been the same since that horrible head injury. Before that he played with no fear, commanded his box & was a giant. Not so much now though and there are definitely better keepers in the Prem & in Europe

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Re: English Premiership Rating Predictions 2011/2012

I hate the fact that my work block the Soccer Manager site' date=' but not the forum.... I have to wait until 7pm when I get home to find out who's risen/dropped :(

Although if Guidetti has risen to 85 then I'm a happy man!

Hhhmmmmm I dunno. Don't get me wrong, excellent keeper, but he's not been the same since that horrible head injury. Before that he played with no fear, commanded his box & was a giant. Not so much now though and there are definitely better keepers in the Prem & in Europe[/quote']

Aye, he rose +4

:P

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Re: English Premiership Rating Predictions 2011/2012

Really quite disapointed with last night's recent changes.

Knew Sturridge wouldn't get a rise due to 1 league goal in 2012 but Ba is ridiculous. Krul only +1 is also ridiculous. Then don't get me started on Livermore 84 and Coquelin 85.

Very unhappy

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Re: English Premiership Rating Predictions 2011/2012

Ba stayed?***?

maybe it is not over?

Still waiting for Song to get his long deserved rise lol... anyone who watch and understands football knows he is 92. He's 90/10 for +1 imo.

Ramires is 50/50 to +1. Driving force for Chelsea at times but the impact is not big enough yet.

Walcott is just 50/50 now, despite over 10 assists and goals each, if his form is a bit more consistent next season then good chance to rise.

Bale is a bit inconsistent too and got +1 to 92. I think Cech -1 is alright, even Reina drop iirc. Hart rose to 92.

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Re: English Premiership Rating Predictions 2011/2012

No rise for Smalling?

He did not play last couple of games because of injury,but before that,he has been great..

No rise for Ba? Really?

No rise for Pogba? Interesting.

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Re: English Premiership Rating Predictions 2011/2012

No rise for Smalling?

He did not play last couple of games because of injury' date='but before that,he has been great..

No rise for Ba? Really?

No rise for Pogba? Interesting.[/quote']

Yep, seems they're just completely forgetting about players form for the majority of the time since the last changes and basing it on recent matches lol

Ba should get 90 if Cisse did, no question about that and Smalling should not be rated lower than Jones.

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