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Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........


M.B.Diouf
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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

Nobody could care less if it's more flexible' date=' there was a fundemental structure before and now it's an absolute shambles.

Some Italian teams were updated, that seems to have stopped, but it's ok, 2 Botswana players had position changes.[/quote']

jtFO6AYakgw1N_e.jpg

Barack Obama asks Botswana president Ian Khama for assurances that SM will review their country soon.

jb1dzlp6LE0eS.jpg

Ian Khama announces to his people that the wait is over

jIEA8K0gFyRr0_e.jpg

The people of Botswana celebrate their risers and rush off to renew their Gold membership:rolleyes:

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

jtFO6AYakgw1N_e.jpg

Barack Obama asks Botswana president Ian Khama for assurances that SM will review their country soon.

jb1dzlp6LE0eS.jpg

Ian Khama announces to his people that the wait is over

jIEA8K0gFyRr0_e.jpg

The people of Botswana celebrate their risers and rush off to renew their Gold membership:rolleyes:

Brilliant, sarcasm isn't it lovely :D:D:D

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

Brilliant' date=' sarcasm isn't it lovely :D:D:D[/quote']

Funny thing is, after I posted it I thought to myself if SW was actually useable, and by useable I mean you could actually suggest the proper ratings the players deserve I probably wouldn't be posting such rubbish. Probably;)

Then again if we can't suggest the correct ratings for players now why bother because its obviously not the community driving the changes.

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Riferimento: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy......

The did a similar thing last year with "Ligue 1" changes: a few teams updated, then no signs for 4 days and on Friday evening all the missing teams changed together. Hope it'll happen the same.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

it's nice that the Devs have finally made the effort to recognise it's customers, a pity they couldn't do it sooner but better late than never.

i have to agree with Glenn, their comments are classics, that seem to been taking from 'yes minister' the old comedy series.

players will have their ratings changed when the allocation process as been adhered to, in the fullness of time, not too soon but not too late either, when we have had sufficent time to deliberate the pro's and con's and when the weather is not too wet nor too dry.

when that countries season is underway and not before or possibly at the end or in the middle, shall we form a committee to discuss, in length, whether to transfer our findings from soccerwiki to SM or not, this may take some time, it may not, but all customers can be assured, you have my word on that, that something will happen quickly or slowly in the future regarding rating changes or not.

we are currently waiting for the top guy ' Dev. Boris Johnson' to give sm's final word on the matter, in the meantime please spend as much money as you can afford because we need to pay the xmas bonuses next week.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

So does this mean all leagues (major and minor) will no longer be updated in one go' date=' at all?[/b'] Where does this leave the Italian review that you started which seems to have stopped? Is there any possibility for allowing users to make more than one type of change on SoccerWiki at a time, it really limits how many changes one person can make when they want to contribute a lot?
All of the data on Soccer Manager is transferred over from the Soccer Wiki. The Soccer Wiki is a separate site and it is all community driven. Due to this data can be added or edited at any point and this is why there is no longer any schedule of transferring over data. This makes the system a lot more flexible.

DEV Vicky's post seems to answer your first question.

But an explicit and in detail explanation from one of the DEV's about the new player review system would be nice.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

DEV Vicky's post seems to answer your first question.

The problem for me is that they have already done France and started Italy (which is now in limbo' date=' for no apparent reason) in the traditional fashion despite clearly having already come to this decision before them. We had random risers from SoccerWiki even whilst they were still doing leagues all at once. Plus, I just find it hard to believe the whole game is going to be [b']solely[/b] based on random updates from SoccerWiki, can you imagine how widly inconsistent the database is going to be if this is the new way.

Besides, this is basically the general answer they've been giving to all kinds of questions about ratings, I really was hoping for a clearer answer that's more geared to my question. If they hadn't done leagues after coming to this decision, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly.

But an explicit and in detail explanation from one of the DEV's about the new player review system would be nice.

Just spotted this part of your post, this is basically the issue, the lack of any real clarification means you're left having to fill in the blanks yourself.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

Can't speak on behalf of the Gold members' date=' I used to be Gold myself but that was like four years ago.[/quote']

Well on the basis that you are not a paying customer, would it not be better to leave it to us that are, so that we can air our grievances?

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

jtFO6AYakgw1N_e.jpg

Barack Obama asks Botswana president Ian Khama for assurances that SM will review their country soon.

jb1dzlp6LE0eS.jpg

Ian Khama announces to his people that the wait is over

jIEA8K0gFyRr0_e.jpg

The people of Botswana celebrate their risers and rush off to renew their Gold membership:rolleyes:

Genius!

Hilariously funny and a biting dig at SM's new rating shambles.

Top effort!

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

I feel people from SM say nothing concrete 'cause they don't know. They simply do not know how to answer. Perhaps SoccerWiki is a completely independent firm, kind of subcontracted to do the rating changes.

On the other hand, SM has been saying that SW is completely community driven. This is unmanageable. I can not imagine how wrong ratings can be, of course overrating hyped players and major leagues and at same time understating relatively unknown players or minor leagues.

Example, if the community were to rate Falcao 2 years ago, at the time playing in Portugal, what would you guess the rating would be? a relatively unknown player outside Portugal? 87? 88? With the previous system he was already a 91, since May 2010, and we all know he can be a 95 player soon... or even a 99, if decided by community, now that he is on the spotlight...

I agree with pimpampu, http://forum.soccermanager.com/showpost.php?p=2348915&postcount=961 , players will concentrate on major leagues, this will DESTROY the game.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

One more thing, I feel the reason why the community contributes to update the database is exactly because people want to get the rating changes right, bet on relatively unknown players and make a profit when the league is reviewed, build step by step a stronger team.

Now, from now on, the changes are random, there is absolute no motivation for anyone to contribute updating the database, as the result from the update will be at an uncertain point in time in the future. Up to now, the reward for researching and analyzing was fast, and this was the motivation to contribute.

I am afraid these changes will also affect the accuracy of data on Soccerwiki, as lesser and lesser members introduce their inputs.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

Rant imminent.

Soccerwiki has been a plague on this game. While it's a good standalone idea, it should never have been joined with SM in the way it has. Since then we've seen ludicrous rating changes, the destruction of the rating schedule and the introduction of random ratings.

There was a time when rises for players felt like a massive thing. It was done perfectly. Thomas Muller had to dominate in a World Cup to get 91, now Neymar gets it for playing well in a league that SM never rated highly until soccerwiki showed up. Samuel Umtiti just rose +6 despite the fact that he has only played one third of Lyon's games. That's complete nonsense, back before SW it would have taken him two changes to get there.

The old rating system was calm and well thought out. A player not only had to earn his rating, he had to sustain it. If a 75 rated player started playing every week for Man Utd he'd rise to 80, then 83, then 86, 88, 90. It would take a year, maybe more for him to be first team rating and thus if he fell out of form during the process, SM could be sensible. By that I mean that if, when he hits 88, he starts playing terribly then SM hadn't just given him a 90 because he's a hyped young player so it doesnt look silly.

Now it seems like once a player is good in Fifa, Football Manager or included in "Best 100 Young Players" lists, he's guaranteed to get a massive rating increase.

Not to mention the utterly ludicrous new system of implementing position changes after the player plays ONE match in that position. ONE match. I remember 2/3 years ago SM telling me that one of my players couldnt have a position change because he hadn't played there enough, and he had played 15+ times. It's absolutely pathetic. Change John O'Shea, Felipe Melo and Phil Jagielka to "GK" if one game equals being proficient at that position. Nonsense.

Finally, the rating structure. Farcical. Removing a schedule makes it literally impossible to predict and sign risers, essentially making a wonderful effort to destroy a huge aspect of SM. There's also the issue of inconsistent ratings when one player from one club in one country gets a rise because someone on soccerwiki saw him in a 100 Best Young Players list and decides to give him a random increase. I've actually benefitted from this and it still annoys me. Jores Okore got a random rise recently but my other Danish league players remain untouched.

It also makes it difficult to be excited. The big league change cycle coming around was always greeted with much anticipation in my GW. I'm going to sound pathetic but meh; waking up I was always diving for my phone/computer to see who'd risen or who'd dropped. Now there's been no changes, bar some Botswana ones since Saturday.

Summary: Not everything has to change SM. You're implementing changes for the sake of implementing changes. The game was perfect, you're slowly making it convoluted and destroying what made it beautiful - its simplicity.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

Howie, that post was spot on.

No-one will disagree that changes needed to be made. But the changes made are the wrong ones. Soccerwiki could have been helpful, it could have been good, a way to help SM review leagues, ensure players or teams aren't missed. They should have used it as a guide to how well players are doing, then updated their ratings based on their own rules for ratings. All they are doing here, is trusting the Internet. The next thing we know is they'll issue a statement, saying they were wrong to use Soccerwiki, but they never expected people on the internet to lie.

As a perfect example, of how SM doesn't have it's updates, improvements and changes right - why bring in the scouting, when goalkeepers never get injured, booked or sent off? ever?

Each time there is a break in the ratings, I now expect some more rubbish to come up that SM want me to spend my credits on. Now, SM is a company, it needs and wants to make money, so getting you to spend money on scouting etc is a good idea. The problem here is the scouting is not good. It's rubbish. Why, for example, in a full gameworld, would I want to see a scout report based on what the A.I. would play and their formation, when it CLEARLY doesn't have the strongest team as it's lineup. For this I would expect to see something that showed me the last 5 games formations, line ups and tactics. That would be useful. Oh, and for it to tell me the best counter tactic. THAT would be scouting. THAT I would spend, use and buy SM Credits for.

In short, SM, you need to sort it out. You appear to be doing less work (Soccerwiki does your ratings now) and asking for more of our money for stuff that is no good. If this was dragon's den, everyone would be OUT.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

All of the data on Soccer Manager is transferred over from the Soccer Wiki. The Soccer Wiki is a separate site and it is all community driven. Due to this data can be added or edited at any point and this is why there is no longer any schedule of transferring over data. This makes the system a lot more flexible.

meh............

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

Rant imminent.

Soccerwiki has been a plague on this game. While it's a good standalone idea' date=' it should never have been joined with SM in the way it has. Since then we've seen ludicrous rating changes, the destruction of the rating schedule and the introduction of random ratings.

There was a time when rises for players felt like a massive thing. It was done perfectly. Thomas Muller had to dominate in a World Cup to get 91, now Neymar gets it for playing well in a league that SM never rated highly until soccerwiki showed up. Samuel Umtiti just rose +6 despite the fact that he has only played one third of Lyon's games. That's complete nonsense, back before SW it would have taken him two changes to get there.

The old rating system was calm and well thought out. A player not only had to earn his rating, he had to sustain it. If a 75 rated player started playing every week for Man Utd he'd rise to 80, then 83, then 86, 88, 90. It would take a year, maybe more for him to be first team rating and thus if he fell out of form during the process, SM could be sensible. By that I mean that if, when he hits 88, he starts playing terribly then SM hadn't just given him a 90 because he's a hyped young player so it doesnt look silly.

Now it seems like once a player is good in Fifa, Football Manager or included in "Best 100 Young Players" lists, he's guaranteed to get a massive rating increase.

Not to mention the utterly ludicrous new system of implementing position changes after the player plays ONE match in that position. ONE match. I remember 2/3 years ago SM telling me that one of my players couldnt have a position change because he hadn't played there enough, and he had played 15+ times. It's absolutely pathetic. Change John O'Shea, Felipe Melo and Phil Jagielka to "GK" if one game equals being proficient at that position. Nonsense.

Finally, the rating structure. Farcical. Removing a schedule makes it literally impossible to predict and sign risers, essentially making a wonderful effort to destroy a huge aspect of SM. There's also the issue of inconsistent ratings when one player from one club in one country gets a rise because someone on soccerwiki saw him in a 100 Best Young Players list and decides to give him a random increase. I've actually benefitted from this and it still annoys me. Jores Okore got a random rise recently but my other Danish league players remain untouched.

It also makes it difficult to be excited. The big league change cycle coming around was always greeted with much anticipation in my GW. I'm going to sound pathetic but meh; waking up I was always diving for my phone/computer to see who'd risen or who'd dropped. Now there's been no changes, bar some Botswana ones since Saturday.

[b']Summary:[/b] Not everything has to change SM. You're implementing changes for the sake of implementing changes. The game was perfect, you're slowly making it convoluted and destroying what made it beautiful - its simplicity.

The star post of this entire thread, I hope SM's people take note of this one even if they ignore every other one.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

Rant imminent.

Soccerwiki has been a plague on this game. While it's a good standalone idea' date=' it should never have been joined with SM in the way it has. Since then we've seen ludicrous rating changes, the destruction of the rating schedule and the introduction of random ratings.

There was a time when rises for players felt like a massive thing. It was done perfectly. Thomas Muller had to dominate in a World Cup to get 91, now Neymar gets it for playing well in a league that SM never rated highly until soccerwiki showed up. Samuel Umtiti just rose +6 despite the fact that he has only played one third of Lyon's games. That's complete nonsense, back before SW it would have taken him two changes to get there.

The old rating system was calm and well thought out. A player not only had to earn his rating, he had to sustain it. If a 75 rated player started playing every week for Man Utd he'd rise to 80, then 83, then 86, 88, 90. It would take a year, maybe more for him to be first team rating and thus if he fell out of form during the process, SM could be sensible. By that I mean that if, when he hits 88, he starts playing terribly then SM hadn't just given him a 90 because he's a hyped young player so it doesnt look silly.

Now it seems like once a player is good in Fifa, Football Manager or included in "Best 100 Young Players" lists, he's guaranteed to get a massive rating increase.

Not to mention the utterly ludicrous new system of implementing position changes after the player plays ONE match in that position. ONE match. I remember 2/3 years ago SM telling me that one of my players couldnt have a position change because he hadn't played there enough, and he had played 15+ times. It's absolutely pathetic. Change John O'Shea, Felipe Melo and Phil Jagielka to "GK" if one game equals being proficient at that position. Nonsense.

Finally, the rating structure. Farcical. Removing a schedule makes it literally impossible to predict and sign risers, essentially making a wonderful effort to destroy a huge aspect of SM. There's also the issue of inconsistent ratings when one player from one club in one country gets a rise because someone on soccerwiki saw him in a 100 Best Young Players list and decides to give him a random increase. I've actually benefitted from this and it still annoys me. Jores Okore got a random rise recently but my other Danish league players remain untouched.

It also makes it difficult to be excited. The big league change cycle coming around was always greeted with much anticipation in my GW. I'm going to sound pathetic but meh; waking up I was always diving for my phone/computer to see who'd risen or who'd dropped. Now there's been no changes, bar some Botswana ones since Saturday.

[b']Summary:[/b] Not everything has to change SM. You're implementing changes for the sake of implementing changes. The game was perfect, you're slowly making it convoluted and destroying what made it beautiful - its simplicity.

The star post of this entire thread' date=' I hope SM's people take note of this one even if they ignore every other one.[/quote']

↑↑↑↑↑ agreed!!!

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

Howie' date=' that post was spot on.

No-one will disagree that changes needed to be made. But the changes made are the wrong ones. Soccerwiki could have been helpful, it could have been good, a way to help SM review leagues, ensure players or teams aren't missed. They should have used it as a guide to how well players are doing, then updated their ratings based on their own rules for ratings. All they are doing here, is trusting the Internet. The next thing we know is they'll issue a statement, saying they were wrong to use Soccerwiki, but they never expected people on the internet to lie.

As a perfect example, of how SM doesn't have it's updates, improvements and changes right - why bring in the scouting, when goalkeepers never get injured, booked or sent off? ever?

Each time there is a break in the ratings, I now expect some more rubbish to come up that SM want me to spend my credits on. Now, SM is a company, it needs and wants to make money, so getting you to spend money on scouting etc is a good idea. The problem here is the scouting is not good. It's rubbish. Why, for example, in a full gameworld, would I want to see a scout report based on what the A.I. would play and their formation, when it CLEARLY doesn't have the strongest team as it's lineup. For this I would expect to see something that showed me the last 5 games formations, line ups and tactics. That would be useful. Oh, and for it to tell me the best counter tactic. THAT would be scouting. THAT I would spend, use and buy SM Credits for.

In short, SM, you need to sort it out. You appear to be doing less work (Soccerwiki does your ratings now) and asking for more of our money for stuff that is no good. If this was dragon's den, everyone would be OUT.[/quote']

Take note this, SM :mad:

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

If you would be so kind as to answer these questions that spring to mind as the community cannot ...

Why has the in game notification of what leagues are next to be reviewed been removed when the majority feeling is in contrast to this?

What is wrong with notifying your customers what leagues are next to be reviewed at least a couple of days in advance?

Why can't we suggest justified ratings on SW (for example in a lot of cases it only allows rating suggestions of plus 5' date=' so a 75 rated player might deserve to rise to 83 but we can only suggest 80)[/color']

Is the idea of reviewing the major leagues 3 times a season officially not happening at the current time. Can you confirm that this was the plan?

Will leagues still be reviewed as a whole or as recently seen the random scatter gun approach that could affect any player at any time across the world?

Thanks :)

I think the above Questions need bringing to the front again, in case it gets forgotten about. It was in response to Devs coming on here & introducing themselves, but not giving any answers to our genuine concerns. They have had some time, maybe a little more, but we need answers from them soon!Otherwise it's going to be obvious they are just totally ignoring their customers valid issues with them.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

Excellent post Howie mate.

But my question is, will SM ever come to their senses?

IMO, i highly doubt that could ever happen as the signs do not look promising.

I'm a player of another manager sort of game and interest in that game has fallen to the doldrums because there were too little changes and people left due to that or just moved off from it. I was delighted to have found SM a couple of years back and i though it was a much better game than the other one i was on.

I actually had loads of fun looking out for risers and being patient to build my team to what it was today. However, in recent months, things certainly have seem to have taken a wrong turn somewhere. Firstly, there was the concerns issue which concerns escalated at an astonishing pace and many struggled with it because it was rising too much, too fast. Secondly, it was the position change issue. It sort of happened overnight and the best part of it was, when i tried to use positional search on soccerwiki, the positions were still in the old, tidier format. Thirdly, there was the external loans issue. I actually thought it was a good move because i can loan out some players towards the end of the season where i may not have too many games to play and i do want to be able to keep them, particularly the upcoming youngsters on the verge of breaking into the first team. Lo and behold, you see other teams loaning out massive amounts of players which encouraged player hogging and allowed them to side-step the massive wage issue, making others completely unable to loan good quality players.

My view is that the 3 recent cases above illustrated the complete lack of communication between SM and its users. In all honesty, most of the changes could be good in the long-run but how SM has carried it out has alienated or at least, angered many users. I was considering buying credits because i thought the game was good but i have dropped that idea completely.

To turn it around, i reckon all SM has to do is communicate upcoming changes with SM users in the forum or other means at hand. An even better way could be to have a small, select group of veteran, paying players to form a beta-testing group to garner more opinion that is likely to improve the game.

The basic point is that SM NEEDS to listen to its customers. It is the most important way to sustain and grow SM. Failure to do so will lead to poorer business in the long-run because there will be others who can better cater to customers' needs because they have listened to feedback.

I for one does not want to see SM crash like the other game i was it.

Cheers,

Roy

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

In addition to the questions I posted yesterday I think it would also help if SW relation to SM was explained in greater detail. By this I mean...

Does SM own SW?

Does SW have any reason for existence without SM?

Considering we the public can't suggest high enough ratings in some cases yet the players still go on to achieve a higher rating how much influence do we really have and who IS suggesting/making the higher/correct changes?

On this subject and because i'm to lazy to check myself :o Can anyone answer this..

I block the adverts on SM so don't ever see them to the point were I had pretty much forgotten they were there and it took me by surprise when I saw it on someone else's computer. With this in mind I have never noticed whether SW functions in the same way with adverts. Does it? If it does it explains a lot of why it's hyped as community driven.

Like I say I'm too lazy to unblock and check so this could be nothing I'm just curious to the answer though :)

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

Plz can someone tell me when SM will review the ratings for the German, Spanish and English division 1 leagues next? Especially the Italian league. I mean is its rating review suspended? Cause this rating review arrangement with Soccer Wiki got me a bit confused. Can anyone clarify...?

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

I don't have a problem with the SoccerWiki in principle - after all whenever the SM staff did their once-in-a-blue-moon scheduled changes there was always a plethora of people on here asking "why didn't this guy get this rise" etc.

However, upon registering for SW I am finding it impossible to vote for anything other than player pictures or referee data. I assume SW only exists to facilitate SM, so while it's great that anyone at any time can propose a rating increase it's pointless if I can't vote on other changes people have proposed.

There's also no clarity on how many votes a change needs to be accepted. I'm not having for one moment that SW hasn't had hundreds of people voting for rises on people like El Sharrawy, Sterling, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Falcao whose ratings a drastically below what they should be. Yet one guy votes for some random 42 year old from Gambia to get a plus 2 and it goes straight through.

It's all over the place, there's not enough communication or consistency from the SM/SW staff. If I was a new user who'd heard about SM and was interested in playing, and then saw that Raheem Sterling is 11 ratings lower than Harry Kewell I'd call the game a joke, close the page and never return. So SM are treating current users like idiots by not providing the feedback and/or changes they demand, and they are putting new users off with drastically out of date ratings.

I've probably not broken any new ground here and I doubt a dev will even look at this (though if I insulted one of them or swore they'd be straight on it!), but I think everyone with an opinion on this needs to have their voice heard to give SM an idea of how many users are unhappy.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

Plz can someone tell me when SM will review the ratings for the German' date=' Spanish and English division 1 leagues next? Especially the Italian league. I mean is its rating review suspended? Cause this rating review arrangement with Soccer Wiki got me a bit confused. Can anyone clarify...?[/quote']

This should help answer your questions...

SM populates its player data from SoccerWiki and community of users there that keeps it up to date and reviews data as they see fit. SM pulls across this data on a daily basis reflecting all the changes that the users have been making.SM
All of the data on Soccer Manager is transferred over from the Soccer Wiki. The Soccer Wiki is a separate site and it is all community driven. Due to this data can be added or edited at any point and this is why there is no longer any schedule of transferring over data. This makes the system a lot more flexible.

What do you mean it doesn't :rolleyes:

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