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Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........


M.B.Diouf
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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

Just realised I have approximately £45mill worth of risers in my one remaining team....with no idea if/when/how each individual will ever get reviewed as I know I won't be doing the work for SM whilst they make real life money off the back of of my suggestions!

The biggest issue with SoccerWiki is that idiots with NO football knowledge who support a successful team/player half way across the world will be trying to get THEIR favourite player uprated' date=' without having looked at his stats or ever seen him play.

For example - if this system had been in place after the 2011 Charity Shield, Tom Cleverly would have beeen rated a 179 out of 100 based on the comments on that particular clubs thread from people all over the world who hadn't even seen the game.

Sad days for what used to be the best online football management game :)[/quote']

Exactly. I mean, for the type of person we're talking about here, go onto SM's facebook page.

They'll say something like "reviewing Germany, what ratings do we predict?"

and get hundreds of messages saying things like "Gotze to 99" "Hummels to 95" "Reus to 93" etc.

As harsh as it sounds - idiots.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

I 've read the posts of the last 2 days and i think that the posts of Howie, Monkeyshuffl, mlasm, Rhubarb, RoyLeo, Vendetta, IanMcCo and some other forumers pretty much describe the situation here... It's sad that SM is destroying one of the most important parts of the game, just because someone had the "brilliant" idea of creating SW and operating it the way it is operating now...

So, as the Devs have stated, now we will have no more schedule and we will have RANDOM changes... This mean that we could have a team with some players updated yesterday, other players last month, others three months ago and some others not updated since last year!!?? Sounds... "exciting"!

P.S. No more Botswana players updated today? Whyyy??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Riferimento: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy......

I don't understand a thing...maybe I'm quite stupid but please, someone explain me this thing: if data are transferred from soccerwiki daily and assuming that every day some changes happen on this site, why on SM site we don't have any changes since last week? :confused:

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Re: Riferimento: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy..

I don't understand a thing...maybe I'm quite stupid but please' date=' someone explain me this thing: if data are transferred from soccerwiki daily and assuming that every day some changes happen on this site, why on SM site we don't have any changes since last week? :confused:[/quote']

This is my point, currently it's not possible to vote on any player rating changes, you can only vote on trivial things such as chairman, kits, pictures etc etc. You can submit the ratings but then it seems nothing happens. It's also currently only possible to add one piece of information at a time until it's approved (which takes on average a week). For example I tried to update the Villa staff and history, based on this rate it will take me 10 weeks to populate 10 fields!

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

what are peoples opinions if all the remaining Italian clubs' date=' Germany, Spain & England were updated tomorrow/Saturday in one go?

It is a possibility they could be working on all the data of the top 5 to be transferred across in one go.[/quote']

As long as they reviewed it would be fine by me if they'll do it all at the same time.

If they will star reviewing players at random, its better that we start getting used to it now. Of course it will become more difficult to make money with risers, but we will still make some.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

Personally i think that SW should be just and Addition to the old reviw system, and not the new review system itself.

The old system was great the way it was, everyone was enjoying it and everyone will certanly miss it.

Implementing SW isnt a bad thing, i just think it shouldnt be SW that does all the work.

All the major leagues, starting from the top 5, and going to Holland, portgual, russia, ukraine etc. should be reviewed the way they were being done, SW should just be an addition for the fan users to implement ratings for the lower rated leagues, the ones that get reviewed once every 1 or 2 years, if we have good talents in lower leagues, then SW should take care of it, without removing any schedules or league reviews.

But from what i understood SW will be doing all the reviews, and this reviews will be done individually, so we could have Marchisio rising tomorrow, VIdal rising in a month time and so on, i think this is just wrong.

Also, with this new 'individual' system, how will you know for certain that a player deserves a rise? i Mean, i dont want to see a player rise onlye because he has played 3 good games, and with SW this is likely to happen seeing as there are heaps of people that would like seeing their 'hero' and favourite players rise just because of the name they wear on the shirt, regardless of their performance... Lets take Pastore for Example, if it wasnt for the previous reviewing system rules, he'd be already rated 92 or so... seeing all the hype hes had last season and the season before that.

Same thought goes for poeple deserving a drop, how are we sure that a player will get a drop? Many times people will just not vote for a drop if they like the player or have it in one of their teams. Just look at Gameiro and Remy in the french leagues, both merely playing and yet kept their 90s, while they should have dropped to 89....

I just hope that SM will find a connecting point between the old rating review system and the new one, because right now, its just not good enough anymore.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

Exactly. I mean' date=' for the type of person we're talking about here, go onto SM's facebook page.

They'll say something like "reviewing Germany, what ratings do we predict?"

and get hundreds of messages saying things like "Gotze to 99" "Hummels to 95" "Reus to 93" etc.

As harsh as it sounds - idiots.[/quote']

this is not and never has been the case. Im a Soccerwiki admin, and the No#1 scout on Soccerwiki, and believe me i have suggested hundreds of ratings and not one has been uploaded.

SM will always have the final say in a rating. Until they say so, the 'community' has no influence on the rating of a player....

Soccerwiki has been a brilliant addition to SM, not sure who of you was playing SM before it came in, but the old system was terrible. You could only suggest one ticket at a time and it took days to be resolved....now 'trusted' members can submit up to 20 a day.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

this is not and never has been the case. Im a Soccerwiki admin' date=' and the No#1 scout on Soccerwiki, and believe me i have suggested hundreds of ratings and not one has been uploaded.

SM will always have the final say in a rating. Until they say so, the 'community' has no influence on the rating of a player....

Soccerwiki has been a brilliant addition to SM, not sure who of you was playing SM before it came in, but the old system was terrible. You could only suggest one ticket at a time and it took days to be resolved....[b']now 'trusted' members can submit up to 20 a day[/b].

You do see the problem don't you?

SW was supposed to be a community driven initiative that allows users to aid in the changing of data on the SM database. I agree that if you let any tom, dick or harry change the ratings, we'll probably see Neymar getting 100.

However, if you scale it down to 'trusted' members, you are kind of shooting yourself in the foot because this group of people are supposed to represent the entire player pool. We all know that it is impossible to please everyone but i'm not sure if everyone of these 'trustees' could really so objectively rate a player's performance because after all, they do have their preferences and favourite player.

For example, one member could rate Gotze at 93 whilst another rates him only back at 91. How is his rating going to be resolved then? Will it be an average at 92? Will it be vote to see what rating he gets? I'm extremely wary of having a select group of people from the community deciding because we have all seen ridiculous recommendations to player ratings. Furthermore, this could draw out the rating change process because some members could become busy and not have time to partake in the forum.

For all purpose and intent, the old system of SM doing all the changes was actually good because it is their game and they could do what they liked with it and we all have no right to argue. If we take up the community approach, all players now have the right to question and fight over rating chances which is by no means helpful.

Sorry if i'm digressing but hope you guys see my point.

Cheers,

Roy

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

I just can't see how random rating updates can be good. You'd now have to search every league at the same time and how would you know which players will rise first and which in a few mouths? You'd anyway never be able to sign everyone but look how long it took to update the Uruguay league how would I know when there will be random changes from there again? Vietto from Velez in Argentina got a increase recently, the league was done I think about 6months ago so he'd have played enough matches to deserve a rise but why not increase Guzman78 who's played all of Newell's games? Do we now have to wait until enough people make votes or propose increases etc on soccerwiki? There has to be some sort of schedule. If SM said that players would approximately only be updated at round half way through a season that would at least be some sort of schedule.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

After a week of inaction, some MASSIVE risers, (stevanovic +10, obiang +11 etc), in Italy's smaller clubs none of them are showing on the player database/changes tab yet though :( On a brighter note, bought stevanovic for 14 of my teams yesterday and obiang in 12 :D:p

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

After a week of inaction' date=' some MASSIVE risers, (+10, +11 etc), in Italy's smaller clubs none of them are showing on the player database/changes tab yet though :([/quote']

It usually takes about 60-90 mins after transfer from SW before you can see it there. Be patient!!

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

please excuse my ignorance,

if peter crouch is ignored by the SW community for two years, will his rating never change for two years?

are SM getting the SW community to do their work for free?

i have just opened a SW account and i went to make a comment on a player and it sends me to my hotmail address , then it seems facebook sticks it's nose in and unless i give facebook permission for something i cant post a comment. as i will never have a facebook account, does this mean i cant be part of SW community?

does this mean everyone will gradually go through every player they own and ask for a bigger rise than they should get?

does this mean players ratings will never go down because no one is going to ask for that for their own players?

i dont mind them changing the way they review the ratings, i just have never had any interest in SW , so i know nothing.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

You do see the problem don't you?

SW was supposed to be a community driven initiative that allows users to aid in the changing of data on the SM database. I agree that if you let any tom' date=' dick or harry change the ratings, we'll probably see Neymar getting 100.

[b']However, if you scale it down to 'trusted' members, you are kind of shooting yourself in the foot because this group of people are supposed to represent the entire player pool. We all know that it is impossible to please everyone but i'm not sure if everyone of these 'trustees' could really so objectively rate a player's performance because after all, they do have their preferences and favourite playe[/b]r.

For example, one member could rate Gotze at 93 whilst another rates him only back at 91. How is his rating going to be resolved then? Will it be an average at 92? Will it be vote to see what rating he gets? I'm extremely wary of having a select group of people from the community deciding because we have all seen ridiculous recommendations to player ratings. Furthermore, this could draw out the rating change process because some members could become busy and not have time to partake in the forum.

For all purpose and intent, the old system of SM doing all the changes was actually good because it is their game and they could do what they liked with it and we all have no right to argue. If we take up the community approach, all players now have the right to question and fight over rating chances which is by no means helpful.

Sorry if i'm digressing but hope you guys see my point.

Cheers,

Roy

ALL players are Equal ..... just some are MORE EQUAL than others :eek::)

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

please excuse my ignorance' date='

[b']if peter crouch is ignored by the SW community for two years, will his rating never change for two years? [/b]

are SM getting the SW community to do their work for free?

i have just opened a SW account and i went to make a comment on a player and it sends me to my hotmail address , then it seems facebook sticks it's nose in and unless i give facebook permission for something i cant post a comment. as i will never have a facebook account, does this mean i cant be part of SW community?

does this mean everyone will gradually go through every player they own and ask for a bigger rise than they should get?

does this mean players ratings will never go down because no one is going to ask for that for their own players?

i dont mind them changing the way they review the ratings, i just have never had any interest in SW , so i know nothing.

I guess he wouldn't change BUT the more serious question which SM don't even tell us is: How many people have to submit a change OR WORSE STILL if your not one of their "Trustees" will your submission have to wait on a "Trusteee" submission confirmation? This is open to all kinds of abuse ie a "Trustee" just ignores any player he has not got himself or knows u have submitted & u badly need changing???

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

this is not and never has been the case. Im a Soccerwiki admin' date=' and the No#1 scout on Soccerwiki, and believe me i have [b']suggested hundreds of ratings[/b] and not one has been uploaded.

SM will always have the final say in a rating. Until they say so, the 'community' has no influence on the rating of a player....

Soccerwiki has been a brilliant addition to SM, not sure who of you was playing SM before it came in, but the old system was terrible. You could only suggest one ticket at a time and it took days to be resolved....now 'trusted' members can submit up to 20 a day.

Glad you've finally come out and said it :)

This was the impression I got by my own experiences but its pretty damning imo that their SW admin/No#1 scout says this.

"Community driven" I think not.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

please excuse my ignorance' date='

if peter crouch is ignored by the SW community for two years, will his rating never change for two years?

are SM getting the SW community to do their work for free?

[b']i have just opened a SW account and i went to make a comment on a player and it sends me to my hotmail address , then it seems facebook sticks it's nose in and unless i give facebook permission for something i cant post a comment. as i will never have a facebook account, does this mean i cant be part of SW community?[/b]

you should ask the Devs about this mate.

does this mean everyone will gradually go through every player they own and ask for a bigger rise than they should get?

does this mean players ratings will never go down because no one is going to ask for that for their own players?

this is part of the point im trying to get across, if it was community driven, and users were in charge of the ratings, we would never have any droppers!

i dont mind them changing the way they review the ratings, i just have never had any interest in SW , so i know nothing.

your answers from your PM fella

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

Glad you've finally come out and said it :)

This was the impression I got by my own experiences but its pretty damning imo that their SW admin/No#1 scout says this.

"Community driven" I think not.

Ive been saying it all along. Could you imagine if they let the lunatics run the asylum?

But i wouldnt hold your breath on it not being Community driven. Everything else is on Soccerwiki, bar the ratings. But there has been talk in the past of 'trusted' memebers representing a country and keeping it up to date. Whether that stretches to ratings, i dont know the answer.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

this is not and never has been the case. Im a Soccerwiki admin' date=' and the No#1 scout on Soccerwiki, and believe me i have suggested hundreds of ratings and not one has been uploaded.

SM will always have the final say in a rating. Until they say so, the 'community' has no influence on the rating of a player....

Soccerwiki has been a brilliant addition to SM, not sure who of you was playing SM before it came in, but the old system was terrible.[b'] You could only suggest one ticket at a time and it took days to be resolved[/b]....now 'trusted' members can submit up to 20 a day.

I agree. Anyway, with the old system you had two better things: Links and comment. You know better than me that at the moment checking new players ticket is tedious, above all for spanish, portuguese or brazilian guys whose named just "Fabio Sousa" or something. without the link, you've to search the side in soccerway and hoping they're using the same name, for him, and searching again and again. For this kind of players you can even spend 3 minutes of your time, and we do it for free since january. A lot of times, sad to say that, it''s wasted time cause that's a ticket uploaded by a moron who trying to add himself to the database. I previously purposed having the link from a external source e.g. soccerway or transfermarkt, but they answered me that "sw is a community driven bla bla and we don't want external sources bla bla". Sounds to me like a weak argomentation, but I can accept it. Even with that, a blank for comments (obligatory, like for submitting a cheating ticket) would be appreciated for new players. That would save a lot of time to admins, and waste a bit more of those morons.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

Has anyone a link to the statement from SM that says "we'll review the big leagues three times a year", as well as any date info on the last time these leagues were done?

If a company sells you something (ie membership) on the guarantee that something will happen (updates three times a year) then they are contractually obliged to follow this through. Otherwise, they could leave themselves open to complaints for mis-selling (or similar), which may lead to potential refund / reimbursement, and trading standards complaints and intervention.

Just to play devil's advocate, would SM users be willing to go down this route?

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

Has anyone a link to the statement from SM that says "we'll review the big leagues three times a year"' date=' as well as any date info on the last time these leagues were done?

If a company sells you something (ie membership) on the guarantee that something will happen (updates three times a year) then they are contractually obliged to follow this through. Otherwise, they could leave themselves open to complaints for mis-selling (or similar), which may lead to potential refund / reimbursement, and trading standards complaints and intervention.

Just to play devil's advocate, would SM users be willing to go down this route?[/quote']

ive asked for people to provide this and no one has.

define 'a year' in football. A calendar year or a season?

i have Dec 2011, April 2011, & Dec 2012 by my records, which is 3 times a 'year'.

you chose to become gold members, its not compulsory.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

ive asked for people to provide this and no one has.

define 'a year' in football. A calendar year or a season?

i have Dec 2011' date=' April 2011, & Dec 2012 by my records, which is 3 times a 'year'.

you chose to become gold members, its not compulsory.[/quote']

it used to be on the help section of sm but its now been removed and says the ol' 'Players are constantly reviewed and updated by members of the Soccer Wiki community.' therefore we cant assume this will happen anymore

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

Ive been saying it all along. Could you imagine if they let the lunatics run the asylum?

I believe we don't need to imagine ;)

But i wouldnt hold your breath on it not being Community driven. Everything else is on Soccerwiki' date=' bar the ratings. But there has been talk in the past of 'trusted' memebers representing a country and keeping it up to date. Whether that stretches to ratings, i dont know the answer.[/quote']

Problem is I'd imagine 9 out 10 people would say it's the ratings part they care about the most, and we are being misled over how much influence we have in helping.

I personaly would be happy to have people such as yourself assigned to "representing a country and keeping it up to date" as I feel you are clearly not out to abuse the system for personal gain and would do a very good job of it I imagine as you seem to have a passion for it.

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

ive asked for people to provide this and no one has.

Because no thought they would have to take a screen grab to prove such a thing in the future I'd imagine.

define 'a year' in football. A calendar year or a season?

You can't. But I will and say season :P

i have Dec 2011' date=' April 2011, & Dec 2012 by my records, which is 3 times a 'year'.[/quote']

That's 13 months :eek::P:D;)

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Re: Guess at next leagues to be reviewed, & discuss SM's review policy........

But i wouldnt hold your breath on it not being Community driven. Everything else is on Soccerwiki' date=' bar the ratings. But there has been talk in the past of 'trusted' memebers representing a country and keeping it up to date. Whether that stretches to ratings, i dont know the answer.[/quote']

I do like this idea (if ratings were included). Perhaps you could have it so that this representative reviews the nation every 3 months (to avoid players going up incrementally in small amounts every few weeks) as they play more games. This way, more leagues go up regularly without larger gaps and there is still some semblance of order to changes being made. Admittedly there are still some issues, like what to do with parts of the world where most of the nations are not 'major' leagues (Africa, Eastern Europe, North America etc), but I do think it would have potential.

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